WelcomeWelcome | FAQFAQ | DownloadsDownloads | WikiWiki

Poll

Should xor be required to support the oldest versions of Tinycore?

Yes
6 (85.7%)
No
1 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Author Topic: Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?  (Read 195 times)

Offline xor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1268
Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?
« on: October 16, 2024, 02:02:50 PM »
Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?

TCL's philosophy of minimalism should not be adopting the latest kernel, but the most stable, oldest-based, minimum-consumption kernel!

low-level legacy users; clearly looking for early TCL releases, my suggestion is to support both the latest and oldest versions at the same time!

Would our TLC community consider a democratic vote on this?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2024, 02:14:52 PM by xor »

Offline Rich

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11530
Re: Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2024, 03:52:00 PM »
Hi xor
... Would our TLC community consider a democratic vote on this?
Absolutely. All forum members are encouraged to exercise
their right to vote in the attached poll.

Good luck xor, I hope you win. ;D

Online gadget42

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 738
Re: Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2024, 01:34:08 AM »
Should xor be required to support the oldest versions of Tinycore?

go big or go home, how about this:

"Should xor be required to maintain a complete and up-to-date TinyCoreLinux mirror?
(including any/all versions that are removed for space constraints. see https://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/board,49.0.html for additional information)
The fluctuation theorem has long been known for a sudden switch of the Hamiltonian of a classical system Z54 . For a quantum system with a Hamiltonian changing from... https://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,25972.msg166580.html#msg166580

Online gadget42

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 738
Re: Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2024, 01:42:35 AM »
speaking of space...

@curaga, will there be a post regarding version 4 shortly?
(last year's post was dated October 20th)
The fluctuation theorem has long been known for a sudden switch of the Hamiltonian of a classical system Z54 . For a quantum system with a Hamiltonian changing from... https://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,25972.msg166580.html#msg166580

Online CentralWare

  • Retired Admins
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2024, 01:48:10 AM »
@xor: Is it going the wrong "way" -- not really.

Is that way antiquated?
Maybe a little.

Bare in mind, Tiny Core Linux / DSL was spawned back in the day when the general public DID NOT have computers in their pockets, when a USED 80486 computer was still astronomically priced compared to today's machines, back when RAM was still a commodity due to natural disasters overseas (and "under" seas) but most importantly, the general PEOPLE were still clueless for the most part and WinXX was their tool of choice to break in the new age.  DSL/TCL was visualized because people wanted to take USED machines and give them NEW life.

Now, in the past couple of decades things have progressed, become cheaper (price AND quality), more portable, etc.  Tiny Core Linux is still leaning toward the 486/586 days mentally, though.

Is a CLEAN, LEAN, RIPPED operating system a good thing?  Of course it is.
Does it have to be byte-counted?  Probably not as much as it is currently, but to do anything different would open debates that can't be resolved as someone out there is going to ask "how much is too much?"

Hard drive storage, Flash storage and RAM are a fraction of the cost they were when DSL (2005) and TCL (2009) were launched so there's room to wiggle unless you're trying to resurrect a 486dx and turn it into a kiosk or something...  a feat to have fun doing, no doubt, but for day to day use...  not the wisest path to take if you have other means.

Does it have to have CURRENT kernel releases?  Most definitely.

You have to understand, the KERNEL isn't just basic functionality and foundation...  it's HARDWARE SUPPORT.
The newer the hardware, the newer the kernel.  Period.
If you have older hardware, you can get away with an older kernel.

Should Tiny Core offer multiple kernels?
Technically, it already does.  Pick a TCL version from 5.x to the recent 15.x release - you have plenty to choose from!

Now, if we were to keep EXTENSIONS in each of those versions up to date...  THAT would be a feat!
A very unlikely one, though, as some extensions depend on kernel content so the extension cannot be any "newer" than the kernel without it potentially breaking.
It's a blissful thought, though!

You have a valid question, but it's not really an opinion based topic in need of a vote.

Tiny Core doesn't have to be "as tiny" as it is - but I do like the methodology behind it.
Tiny Core doesn't HAVE to be as "new" (kernel) as it is...  but if it weren't, it wouldn't support things like USB3.x, the latest graphics cards, the latest CPUs, etc. so it would become an operating system that ONLY supports OLD hardware...

Offline curaga

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11032
Re: Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2024, 02:10:19 AM »
Thanks for the reminder gadget42.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Online gadget42

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 738
Re: Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2024, 02:12:27 AM »
@CentralWare: Very Well Said! Ditto!
The fluctuation theorem has long been known for a sudden switch of the Hamiltonian of a classical system Z54 . For a quantum system with a Hamiltonian changing from... https://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,25972.msg166580.html#msg166580

Offline mocore

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • ~.~
Re: Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2024, 05:26:06 AM »
Thanks for the reminder gadget42.

https://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,27321.msg175797.html#msg175797

if the logic driving the removal of old versions is reduce space  could / should tcz/src (build scripts) be retained ?...
*more* on that tangent :
reinstating  ./src from the removed/archived repository's ?

& ftr the downloads.html still links to 1/3 .x
« Last Edit: October 17, 2024, 05:47:39 AM by mocore »

Offline xor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1268
Re: Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2024, 06:04:09 AM »
Thx :)

Hi xor
... Would our TLC community consider a democratic vote on this?
Absolutely. All forum members are encouraged to exercise
their right to vote in the attached poll.

Good luck xor, I hope you win. ;D

Offline xor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1268
Re: Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2024, 06:14:38 AM »
It may be a very idealistic approach,
but my personal opinion is that the latest hardware can be supported by preserving the kernel architecture of the 2.6 series.

Online CentralWare

  • Retired Admins
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Is TCL's philosophy of minimalism going the wrong way!?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2024, 08:00:32 PM »
if the logic driving the removal of old versions is reduce space  could / should tcz/src (build scripts) be retained ?...

@Curaga: @mocore brings up a good point regarding sources and build scripts
For the time being, at least until we have a solid source repository/archive, please LEAVE source directories when disposing of antique versions.
x86/x64: ./release/src and ./tcz/src
arm/etc: ./releases/RPi/src and ./tcz/src

It may be a very idealistic approach,
but my personal opinion is that the latest hardware can be supported by preserving the kernel architecture of the 2.6 series.
@xor: You do realize that 2.6 was given a warrior's funeral around eight years ago?
Maybe I am not seeing something you're trying to get across...  please enlighten me?
I have kernel.org on the screen to my right showing that the oldest long-term kernel still being supported with security/bug patches is v4.19
Please be aware, 4.19 is old enough that it probably doesn't know what USB3.2 ports are or how to communicate with them, so loading that kernel on a newer motherboard is probably not a good idea unless you have no use for the newer hardware chips.

From the sound of it, you're asking to resurrect kernel v2.6.32 (which we were using back in Tiny Core Linux v2.x! Kernel 2.6.29 specifically.)
In YOUR eyes, what would be gained by making the kernel from ~2010 available today?
(I can send you a copy of Tiny Core 2.x, but I'm not sure the general public has much use for the same.)