If I have a persistent /opt, /tce and /home do I still have to backup?

[baz]

If I have a persistent /opt, /tce and /home (defined through boot codes) do I still have to backup?

[roberts]

On every system one should perform periodic backups and not on the same drive as said system.

If the question is 'upon every shutdown' then the answer depends on what you need.
If you added users, or want persistent ssh keys, or an extensiion requires such, then those area of the filesystem would need backup. Typically in the .info for extensions, or documentation (faq/wiki) you will find what files need to be added to .filetool.lst for backup.

[OldAdamUser2]

My personal choice on this is to disable the automatic backup. I can still tick the box to backup on shutdown if I choose to do so, but I don't feel a need to have routine backups. The /opt, /tce, and /home directories have all my important stuff. I can (and  do) copy them to an SD card occasionally.

Most of my computer usee involves web surfing, ebook reaading, and a bit of writing (often through Google docs). No doubt other have different needs and interests.

[baz]

Since originally posting I have experimented a lot and come up with some more questions:

1. OldAdamUser2 you say that you "disable the automatic backup". I didn't know there was an automatic backup, the only one I know about is the one you select at shutdown. I would love to have that actually - how do you enable it? At what frequency does it backup?

2. I copied a movie to my home folder, then I also changed the contents of .wbar in my home folder. I rebooted WITHOUT checking "backup" and when I got back in, the movie was still there, however, the changes I made to .wbar were not. How come? Why is one file persisted but not the other? What is TC doing differently in those cases?

3. I'm a little confused on what it means to have persistent folders like home and opt if we still have to backup. What is persistent about them?

4. After copying my movie to home, I noticed that the backup process was taking very long. Of course I realized that TC was backing up my movie to mydata, so I added /home/Movies to xfiletools.lst and that solved the problem. But this now poses a usability issue. It's quite cumbersome to have to update that file every time I create a folder or download something. Is this what people are doing? Should I just create a folder called 'nobackup' (even though it will actually persist) and use that for all my personal files and folders? It's a bit ugly, but it works. What are others doing?

5. Since all my folders are persistent, why does backup still have to go through mydata.tgz? Is there a way to just have the files backup to their proper places without compression or this intermediate step? I have no issues with drive space if this is what it's all about.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and thanks TC team for a great product - even with its quirks

[Guy]

If I have a persistent /opt, /tce and /home (defined through boot codes) do I still have to backup?

Backup does not backup anything in the tce directory.

I use persistent home and opt, and make extensions for anything with personal settings, such as printer setup, and don't use backup.

Anything in the persistent directories (home and opt) does not need to be backed up. In some situations, files need to be saved in directories other than home or opt (such as printer setup). You either need to make new extensions with these settings, or use backup to save them.

If you are using persistent home and opt, and backup, you can edit /opt/.filetool.lst, and remove everything in the home and opt directory from backup. Only backup anything you want to save in directories other than /home and /opt. Or make new extensions for your personal settings.

[thane]

I'm using a USB stick for persistence, which just has tce, mydata, and a separate directory that I created. I use this directory rather than home for downloads etc.  I don't use persistent home or opt. Basically all the backup is saving is application settings, and browser stuff like favorites and cookies. I clear browser cache on exit. Unless I've added new browser favorites or changed applications I uncheck the backup on shutdown.

All this is convenient enough for my desktop PC, since I'm generally only booting and shutting down once a day (tried just leaving it on and wife complained about wasted energy!).

[baz]

Thanks for the info.

Guy you said that "Anything in the persistent directories (home and opt) does not need to be backed up.", however when I changed the contents of .wbar in my home folder it did not persist through boot. Is this possible, any ideas why?

I will have to take a look at creating my own extensions, seems like a good idea.

[baz]

Anything in the persistent directories (home and opt) does not need to be backed u

So this seems very logical and was my original assumption. Now after reading your comment I decided to re-run my tests again. Very simple. In my home folder I opened the file .wbar, changed a setting, saved the file, then rebooted WITHOUT checking "backup". When my machine finished rebooting, my change did not persist? I double-checked xfiletool.lst and nothing seemed to be a problem, these are the contents:

Cache
XUL.mfasl
opt/.tce_dir
home/tc/mnt
home/tc/.adobe/Flash_Player/AssetCache
home/tc/.macromedia/Flash_Player
home/tc/.opera/opcache
home/tc/.opera/cache4
home/tc/.Xauthority
home/tc/.wmx
home/tc/Movies
home/tc/Downloads
home/tc/Music
home/tc/Photos
home/tc/Desktop

What else can I check to find out why this is happening? Perhaps my boot codes aren't right? This is my menu.lst:

default 0
timeout 1
title tinycore
kernel /boot/bzImage nodhcp opt=sdb1 tce=sdb1 home=sdb1
initrd /boot/tinycore.gz

I will have to say that I noticed something strange while trying to get my menu.lst (located at /mnt/sda1/boot/grub/menu.lst). The sda1 partition that houses my grub wasn't mounted by default. To access the menu.lst I had to sudo mount /dev/sda1. Is it possible that my boot codes aren't even running since sda1 isn't being mounted? Is there a way to double check if my folders are actually set to persist while I'm logged in?

Thanks for all your help.

[Guy]

baz

Is Tiny Core installed on a hard drive or a usb drive?

If it is installed on a hard drive, I suggest you include (hd1,0) in one of these ways.

title   Tiny Core
root   (hd1,0)
kernel   /boot/bzImage quiet tce=sdb1 home=sdb1 opt=sdb1 max_loop=255
initrd   /boot/tinycore.gz

title   Tiny Core
kernel   (hd1,0)/boot/bzImage quiet tce=sdb1 home=sdb1 opt=sdb1 max_loop=255
initrd   (hd1,0)/boot/tinycore.gz

But then, it seems to be working?


It is not a problem if grub/menu.lst is on sda1, and is not mounted.


There are two files /opt/.filetool.lst and /opt/.xfiletool.lst

With persistent home and opt, you can delete all files and directories listed in /opt/.filetool.lst in the /home and /opt directories. You can then delete all files and directories listed in /opt/.xfiletool.lst in the /home and /opt directories. Which is most of them.


For information about wbar, see http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=3767.0

[jur]

Thanks for the info.

Guy you said that "Anything in the persistent directories (home and opt) does not need to be backed up.", however when I changed the contents of .wbar in my home folder it did not persist through boot. Is this possible, any ideas why?

If you create a blank test file in the home folder, does it persist? If not, then I'd guess that the home folder is not persistent despite your boot code settings.

Also, check if wbar.tcz is present in /tce; if it is, zap it. If running TC, then the presence of wbar.tcz can cause unexpected results. It is only needed if running MC and you want wbar.

[baz]

I was in the middle of writing a detailed post addressing all your thoughtful leads and it dawned on me! I had never cleared mydata.gz between NOT backing up - so whatever was saved in there was being restored on next boot. It seems so obvious now that I write it, but basically once I deleted that file, all my issues were solved!

Thank you very much for all your help guys, without it I would have never found this out.

Cheers!