Post Install persistent setup

[bigpcman]

Tinycore has gone through many changes since release 1 and hence much of the independent videos and other documentation content is out of date. Moreover, think about the new changes to achieve a single extension system will have on existing documentation. TC/MC being a new distro is not mature enough yet to expect all that much to be spelled out step by step. Furthermore, tc/mc from the very beginning has been a "core plus building block" system not a turn key system. As such, I predict documentation will always be a difficult area for this distro.

Personally, I don't think tc/mc is for novices unless they are willing to really dig in deep and seek the help of others over an extended period of time. I say this based on my own experience. This is a system where if you are not already an expert you have to have a strong desire to learn new things. Like being on an adventure!

[todiswed01]

My 5cents:

Actually, more like your $ 5. An interesting read, this was.

----------------
----------------
I'm convinced that's not possible to overcome this communication barrier by trying to do it better.

It's really a 'cant'. Being an expert you loose the ability to keep your explanation understandable for non experts. Doing it better from your point of view doesn't help at all.

What's needed is accepting the knowledge of being partially blind. The beginner is blind for expertise and the expert is blind for beginner problems, uses a vocabulary (e.g. 'boots into X') being esperanto for a beginner.

I do appreciate the fact that you’ve taken the time to post. This I do mean most sincerely. With respect to what your quote above, your logic is sound; your logic is flawed.
New instructors (colleges) & subject matter experts (here, Linux) do not relate to ordinary people as you’ve stated. In college, I did not like some instructor’s teaching methods, so I researched the common learning styles. This enabled me to be more effective than the instructor with respect to teaching some students. Thus, retiring instructors loved my ideals while new instructors sometimes disliked me although I treated all instructors the the same.

----------------
----------------

What's needed is accepting the knowledge of being partially blind. The beginner is blind for expertise and the expert is blind for beginner problems, uses a vocabulary (e.g. 'boots into X') being esperanto for a beginner.

Absolutely not, what is needed is an appreciation of how people learn. The simplest forms of learning are rote (this means repetition, just follow the steps) and example (screen-shots “monkey see, so monkey do”)

----------------
An example for a practical solution to my opinion the the installation manual of tinycore:
http://www.tinycorelinux.com/install.html

Not that it would be easy to follow. It's still a pretty long way and most beginners will need 2-3 tries till they come through as any typo will ruin the process.


That's my opinion at least.

A quality tutorial does exist at the link described, and this tutorial is suitable for a newbie. However, the link that you provided simply underscores my point. Whether or not the author of this most excellent tutorial knows it or not, It was written in compliance with rote learning & example based instruction criterion. This tutorial, praised by you & I, is exactly how tutorial should be written; the tinycore concepts page, http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html is exactly how a tutorial should not be written.

That's my opinion at least.

Your opinion is valued and outstanding, considering that it comes from a layperson. However, as you’ve just read, your opinion has fundamental flaws. I sincerely thank you for your efforts and look forward to communication with you.

[todiswed01]

As such, I predict documentation will always be a difficult area for this distro.

Documentation, does not have to be a problem for any distro. All it takes is the willingness to write or the willingness to liaison with those possessed of writing skills. When I've posted help tutorials, they've never been questioned, period. Yet I am no expert. thus, if I can do it, so to can others.

Personally, I don't think tc/mc is for novices unless they are willing to really dig in deep and seek the help of others over an extended period of time. I say this based on my own experience. This is a system where if you are not already an expert you have to have a strong desire to learn new things. Like being on an adventure!

I was not seeking help with anything complicated, so does not apply at this juncture. Thanks  for sharing

[todiswed01]

I read a few of the posts in this thread and it seems that you expect TC to be as "easy" as other distros (even comparing it to the "top 8 at distrowatch"). Since day one, "Core" has never claimed to be "easy" or approachable for noobs; that said, I think it might be easier to teach a noob how to use it if the noob isn't already headstrong that it needs to work like other distros. It's especially difficult if you only want to approach it as any other distro. Slow down, read the documentation, install it on USB or just run from the CD until you feel comfortable with its concept. Be patient and respectful and you'll get it in return. Keep dissing and you're going to have a rockier time with the community than you're having with TC.

You missed the point. One, I never claimed to be an expert, but I've alluded to doing far more than using self installing features. What you failed to realize is this has never been about basic Linux concepts; it's been about poor documentation that causes confusion.
Believe me, if the topic turns to, say, icewin, I admit that I am concept ignorant.
I

[todiswed01]

Again, what is the first problem you'd like some help with?

Starting from the top
The install was flawless, so was the documentation.
I added the restore= entry home to the kernel entry
I added the home= home to the kernel entry.
I have to grub entries. one has the entries the other is plain
I can add leafpad & see the backup file.
The backup before shutdown  or reboot seems normal. It happens too quick to read. The restart work normally.
]Problem: The system is not persistent, not on disk nor in virtualbox.
Please do not point me to the "tinycore concepts" page as I've stated time and time again, it's too convoluted to follow.
I thank you for your patience & time. I did not expect you to write to me again.

EDIT: To removed offensive shouting.
Offensive shouting is typically considered to be typing in all caps which I did not do.
Am I to believe that changing font color and font size is considered to be "offensive shouting"
I count as only one offense as I was typing my 2nd response while you were apparently flagging my post. I had not the time to react.
>>>
>>>
Here is my problem The system is not persistent, not on disk nor in virtualbox.

[roberts]

Such a wordsmith we have here!

This enabled me to be more effective than the instructor with respect to teaching some students.

This says all I need to know about you. Your not asking for help, Your here to self promote. You achieve such by critizing others.

Definition of of the word concept

–noun 1.   a general notion or idea; conception

To a wordsmith it should be obvious. But now we know how and why of the words you use.

What is wrong with the "tutorial" you and a few others praise?
What is wrong with a "Step by step" guide.

Let me give you a few minutes to contemplate...

A step by step guide is making all the decision for you.
That particular tutorial only applies to cloud mode.
Any third grader should be able to follow such pictographs.
Recall the Microsoft televison ads, I'm 3 and I'm a PC.

The words tiny and core I should also think would mean something to a wordsmithy.
How about "Not tunrkey".

Tiny Core and Micro Core as I have stated many times are about having many choices.
With choices comes decisions. To make effective decisions means to have or gain knowledge.
There exists no single way in which to run TC/MC.

You started your faux question by slaming, perhaps they don't teach manners anymore.

Via your wordsmithing, it has now become to time consuming to find a real viable question.
Not that was ever your intention.

Perhaps others will want to continue to read your rantings. I do not and will not.

[todiswed01]

quote author=roberts link=topic=2817.msg14476#msg14476 date=1251578400]
Such a wordsmith we have here!

This enabled me to be more effective than the instructor with respect to teaching some students.

This says all I need to know about you. Your not asking for help, Your here to self promote. You achieve such by critizing others.

[/quote]

This simply states that I discovered long, that one does not need to be a subject matter expert to teach something. It also means that being a subject matter expert (college, Linux or the workplace) can be a barrier to one’s ability to teach. This is not self-promotion; this is called life.

What is wrong with the "tutorial" you and a few others praise?
What is wrong with a "Step by step" guide.

Let me give you a few minutes to contemplate...

A step by step guide is making all the decision for you.
That particular tutorial only applies to cloud mode.
Any third grader should be able to follow such pictographs.
Recall the Microsoft televison ads, I'm 3 and I'm a PC.

The words tiny and core I should also think would mean something to a wordsmithy.
How about "Not tunrkey".

Tiny Core and Micro Core as I have stated many times are about having many choices.
With choices comes decisions. To make effective decisions means to have or gain knowledge.
There exists no single way in which to run TC/MC.

Perhaps others will want to continue to read your rantings. I do not and will not.

Excellent point!
Now if it were organized…
Say, the basic steps for persistence
An examples of advanced options for persistence (in steps) while alluding to more choices then, I would not have to post in the first place.

Starting from the top
The install was flawless, so was the documentation.
I added the restore= entry home to the kernel entry
I added the home= home to the kernel entry.
I have to grub entries. one has the entries the other is plain
I can add leafpad & see the backup file.
The backup before shutdown or reboot seems normal. It happens too quick to read. The restart work normally.
Problem: The system is not persistent, not on disk nor in virtualbox.
Please do not point me to the "tinycore concepts" page as I've stated time and time again, it's too convoluted to follow.
I thank you for your patience & time. I did not expect you to write to me again.

Edited by roberts to remove offensive shouting. Second warning. Continue and your account will be suspended.

[todiswed01]

Here is my problem
The system is not persistent, not on disk nor in virtualbox.
>>>
Starting from the top
The install was flawless, so was the documentation.
I added the "restore=..." entry home to the kernel entry
I added the "home=..." to the kernel entry.
I have to grub entries. one has the entries the other is plain
I can add leafpad & see the backup file.
The backup before shutdown or reboot seems normal. It happens too quick to read. The restart work normally.

[combo3]

Here is my problem
The system is not persistent, not on disk nor in virtualbox.

Did you create a  "tce" directory (PPR/TCE/TCZ mode)... or "tclocal" directory (PPI/TCE mode)?

GUI Method - tclocal directory only

1) Right-click on desktop

2) Select: Tools > Make tclocal File/Directory

3) Choose Device/partition:

/dev/hda1
/dev/hda2
/dev/sda1

(Note: your device list may vary)

Use down/up arrow keys to highlight desired device
Press Enter

4) Choose tclocal type:

 (*) 1 Directory
 (  ) 2 File

Highlight option 1
Press Spacebar
Press Enter

5) Enter amount of diskspace to alocate
6) Press Enter
7) Reboot.


Manual Method

1)  Open a terminal

Code: [Select]

fdisk -l
2) Choose a device (example: hda1)

3) Create the tclocal directory

Code: [Select]

mkdir /mnt/hda1/tclocal
... or tce directory

Code: [Select]

mkdir /mnt/hda1/tce
4) Reboot

--------------------------------------------------

Install your extensions.

They will now be saved to your selected partition and load up automatically everytime you boot.


{Edit: Corrected to distinguish between PPI/PPR modes.}

[todiswed01]

Solved
Solved

Here is my problem
The system is not persistent, not on disk nor in virtualbox.

Did you create a  "tce" directory (PPR/TCE/TCZ mode)... or "tclocal" directory (PPI/TCE mode)?

No, I was not able to glean that from the tinycore concepts page.

Here is my problem
The system is not persistent, not on disk nor in virtualbox.

[

Manual Method

1)  Open a terminal

Code: [Select]

fdisk -l
2) Choose a device (example: hda1)

3) Create the tclocal directory

Code: [Select]

mkdir /mnt/hda1/tclocal
... or tce directory

Code: [Select]

mkdir /mnt/hda1/tce
4) Reboot

--------------------------------------------------

Install your extensions.

They will now be saved to your selected partition and load up automatically everytime you boot.


{Edit: Corrected to distinguish between PPI/PPR modes.}

This worked like a charm! I loved your simple writing! The Linux community definitely needs more people like you! I knew it was not that difficult as the "Tinycore concepts" page made it it out to be. Thank you for not simply rehashing that which I said made no sense to me. I would type "thank you" and marked this thread as solved in bold green text, but I'd probably get flagged for yelling again and then banned.  
>>>>>>>
>>>>
Two Questions:
>>>>>>
Question1)Can I assume that what I have now is a Persistent Personal respository (PPR) into which I can place TCE & TCZ files?
Question 2) For PPI, just create a directory /mnt/hda1/tclocal, and then add the boot option of  local=/mnt/hda1/tclocal to grub menu.lst, yes, no?

Thanks again, for being different than some, and thanks to those who gave me support through this ordeal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
Thanks, Thanks & thanks again combo3
Also, a special thanks to the newbie, JoXo009. Your insight is exactly what the Linux community needs.
I'd be willing to re-write or write another version of "tinycore concepts" anythoughts?
solved
solved
solved

[Juanito]

I would recommend using a tce folder rather than tclocal - this is more in line with how tinycore is meant to be used and will avoid "system rot".

If not already done, this can be created manually from a terminal window by:

Code: [Select]

$ sudo mkdir /mnt/hda1/tce
$ sudo chown tc:staff /mnt/hda1/tce
You can then copy any extensions you would like to be loaded on boot to the /tce folder.

[todiswed01]

  Casual reader: this thread is solved  
Jaunito, thanks for this tip!
I created another install using tce as you suggested. Opera, Mplayer, "Sound via OSS,"abiword, firefox, leafpad & Rox are online & persistent.
Also, again thanks to Combo3 (two post above this one) and the insighful JoXo009, for his words of wisdom on page 2.

[fladd]

As far as I understood it, you would only use the home= option OR the restore= option, since restore means to use a backup file for persistence and home means to use a partition for persistence (both only refer to the user files in /home/tc, NOT the extensions).

Correct me if I am wrong.

fladd

[Guy]

As far as I understood it, you would only use the home= option OR the restore= option

If you only use home but not backup, you can save files but not certain settings. For example, if you add a background image, you need to use backup to save it (unless you make an extension containing your backup images).

You can use backup and not home, but if you put a lot in backup it takes a long time when shutting down and starting the computer. If you save things in home and not home/tc, they are not saved in backup, so it is much quicker.

So it is normally best to use both.

The best way to use backup is to put it in the tce directory, so you don't need to specify the restore= option. Tiny core finds it automatically.

There are also other options. You can use encrypted home instead of home. This is slightly different again.

[fladd]

I see.
But the backup is also loaded into RAM, right? So when having very little RAM on a machine this can become critical when the home is also in there.
So does this mean that if I use both, restore= and home= than everything in the /home/tc directory is saved on the hd and normally mounted (not in RAM) while specific settings like the background (although I don't get why this is not in home) will be loaded in RAM from the backup?

What would be the best/easiest on RAM install option then in general? Using home= restore= and only tcz I guess, right?

fladd