Post Install persistent setup

[todistue01]

Preface:

One of the main reasons that small Linux distros will never enjoy the popularity of Macintosh, Ubuntu & Suse is the lack of organized quality documentation. One has only to look at “Puppy Linux,” “DSL” and now, tinycore Linux.
The tinycore install documentation: ( http://www.tinycorelinux.com/install.html) scored a 94 of 100 point possible on my scale.

My problem:
The following link is a nice decription of options: http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html However, since it fails to tell one how to effect the setups that it describes, it is worthless. Could someone please tell me how to make my hard-disk install of Tinycore persistent? Note: I installed tinycore on /dev/hda1 (mkfs.ext3) following this link () with the exception that I created a swap partion on /dev/hda2/.
Please help (especially users of windows, Ububtu, and Suse). I single out these users due to their excellent writing & understanding of those who Linux & windows.
I would greatly appreciate help.
the difference between me and many who post is this: I never post helpful information unless I've personally performed all the steps that I've posted.
thank you or
Vă mulţumesc anticipat

[Guy]

Keep in mind, Tiny Core is in the relatively early stages of development, and the people involved are volunteers. A lot of time and effort is being put into developing a good operating system. They can't do everything at once.

Here are some links which may be helpful.

Install Tiny Core while connected to the internet: /net-install.html][removed due to policy violation]/net-install.html

Install Programs: /install-programs.html][removed due to policy violation]/install-programs.html

Backup: /backup.html][removed due to policy violation]/backup.html

You may also refer to other subjects.

[todistue02]

I had to create a new account (todaistue01 is now todaistue02) as I forgot the password to the original, and I mistyped my registration email.
>
a more mellow me. 
First, I'd like to say thanks to Guy for responding.
Second, for the record, I do respect Linux and I respect volunteers. However, as I stated in my original post, the Linux community does a wonderful job of shooting itself in the foot.
Still Lost
I went through each of your links to no avail.
There is missing information. If I knew how to solve this problem, I would really like to re-write the pertinent steps.
Problems & Questions:
On exit, (shutdown) the program prompts for a backup location to be entered manually. What is this location? Do I need to use the "mkdir" command to create it? If so, can I expect chown, chmod chgrp problems? If the location exist, how can I see it as there is no file manager such as nautilus or dolphin to be found? All I know is that when I restart, all extensions are gone. Other than this problem, It would seem that I've (FINALLY) found my needed small distro.
Any help would be appreciated,
thanks in advance

[roberts]

Re-posting from Core Concepts...
http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html

Backup/Restore and Other Persistency Options:

Backup/Restore
After setting up your new system, you will want to save your settings. There is a file called /opt/.filetool.lst. It is a simple text file of files and directories listed one per line using a full path that the user wants to save/restore. Use any of the GUI tools provided on the Tools menu or any editors available via extensions or vi to change/update (e.g., select Beaver, then open /opt/.filetool.lst).

The default is to backup the entire home/tc directory. However, one can choose to selectively backup only certain files. However it is important to note that the entry /opt/.filetool.lst must NOT be removed from the .filetool.lst as this provides for persistence for the .filetool.lst itself.

Also note that the capability exists to exclude files from the backup with the file /opt/.xfiletool.lst. Adding entries to this file will exclude them from the backup. Cache and other files are in the default /opt/.xfiletool.lst.

The backup will be written to a file called "mydata.tgz". You can initially select the storage device by using the boot option of: restore=hdXY or after boot, by selecting "Backup/Restore" from the "Panel". Your backup will be automatically searched for and restored during subsequent booting. Once a mydata.tgz has been successfully created, the boot option may be omitted. Autoscan once again is there to support "hands free" booting. And as before, always specifying the boot option speeds your boot time.

Additionally you may add a directory to the location of the backup, e.g., restore=hdXY/a_directory This will allow the backup file "mydata.tgz" to be placed in a directory. Using a directory also means that you must always specify it via its boot code. You can skip using your backup with the boot option of norestore.

These options together with a local .xsession provide the user with much more control of their preferred environment. For example, by editing the .xsession you can start up your favorite X-Windows programs. You can start non-Window programs by editing the .profile and then adding it to your /opt/.filetool.lst. You can even load additional modules and system-specific required files by editing the /opt/bootlocal.sh file and then adding it to your filetool.lst.

[todiswed01]

Sir, I have to say thank you for replying. However, as indicated by your post’s title, all you did was copy & paste from tiny core concepts. I’ve already indicated that tinycore concepts, in it current incarnation, is worthless. Please allow me help you and many other prospective tinycore users.

Re-posting from Core Concepts...
http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html

Backup/Restore and Other Persistency Options:

Backup/Restore
After setting up your new system, you will want to save your settings. There is a file called /opt/.filetool.lst. It is a simple text file of files and directories listed one per line using a full path that the user wants to save/restore. Use any of the GUI tools provided on the Tools menu or any editors available via extensions or vi to change/update (e.g., select Beaver, then open /opt/.filetool.lst).

Really?? Who cares? I cannot access opt/.filetool.lst as there is no file manager. Installing a file manager does not help. If one restarts after installing a file manager, then the file manager is deleted.

Re-posting from Core Concepts...
http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html

Backup/Restore and Other Persistency Options:

Backup/Restore
. Use any of the GUI tools provided on the Tools menu or any editors available via extensions or vi to change/update (e.g., select Beaver, then open /opt/.filetool.lst).

What?? English please. Beaver does not work. How about some simple steps versus paragraphs that accomplish nothing. Which gui tool? How about steps to use it?


[/quote]

Re-posting from Core Concepts...
http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html

Backup/Restore and Other Persistency Options:

Backup/Restore

The default is to backup the entire home/tc directory. However, one can choose to selectively backup only certain files. However it is important to note that the entry /opt/.filetool.lst must NOT be removed from the .filetool.lst as this provides for persistence for the .filetool.lst itself.

Additionally you may add a directory to the location of the backup, e.g., restore=hdXY/a_directory This

I presume that you are saying that extensions are downloaded into home and their setting are also in home. Had the documentation been written better, I’d have no need to ask.

Re-posting from Core Concepts...
http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html


The backup will be written to a file called "mydata.tgz". You can initially select the storage device by using the boot option of: restore=hdXY or after boot, by selecting "Backup/Restore" from the "Panel". Your backup will be automatically searched for and restored during subsequent booting. Once a mydata.tgz has been successfully created, the boot option may be omitted. Autoscan once again is there to support "hands free" booting. And as before, always specifying the boot option speeds your boot time.

Really??
Please point to the part of the documentation that tells one how to effect the following: “using the boot option of: restore=hdXY”

Re-posting from Core Concepts...
http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html


…You can initially select the storage device by using the boot option of: restore=hdXY or after boot, by selecting "Backup/Restore" from the "Panel".[/b] Your backup will be automatically searched for and restored during subsequent booting. Once a mydata.tgz has been successfully created, the boot option may be omitted. Autoscan once again is there to support "hands free" booting. And as before, always specifying the boot option speeds your boot time.

The preceding is false. However, it may be true if one follows guidelines that are shamefully & flagrantly absent from http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html.

What is my bottom line?
Sir, I do not mean to affronting. However, truth is truth.
Your system is far different than the top eight distros at www.distrowatch.com. Your documentation is woefully lacking in some areas. This is why your documentation fails. Also as a small distro, there is very limited google help. Your documentation entitled at http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html does not contain step-by-step instructions. It alienates prospective “Tinycore” users; it alienates linux users who are competent enough to quadruple boot Linux & Vista; competent enough to use mkdir, competent enough to manual edit grub; competent enough to create grub rescue Cds & USB drives and last but not least competent enough to use dd & backup critical file to include the MBR, which is actually a collection of few files and programs. I am no Linux guru or windows IT, but I am competent. It is unfortunate that your documentation is my only obstacle
Teach me and I will gladly rewrite it.
Final bottom Line
The documentation found at: http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html is useless. The http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html is not step-by-step; It is conversational patter. It ruins what is otherwise a remarkably great small distro. For any one accustomed to the documentation associated with the larger vendors of windows software, Ubuntu, Suse Debian or PCLinux, be prepared for hampering disappointment.

[Juanito]

Really?? Who cares? I cannot access opt/.filetool.lst as there is no file manager. Installing a file manager does not help. If one restarts after installing a file manager, then the file manager is deleted.

Not if the emelfm, glib1 and gtk1 extensions are placed in a folder named /tce

What?? English please. Beaver does not work. How about some simple steps versus paragraphs that accomplish nothing. Which gui tool? How about steps to use it?

With the beaver, glib1 and gtk1 extensions placed in the /tce folder, the "so simple it is self explanatory" beaver text editor will work.

Alternately, without loading any extensions, you can use the "vi" text editor from a terminal window:

1. "vi /opt/.filetool.lst"
2. Press the "insert" key
3. Use the arrow keys to navigate to where you want to edit and edit.
4. Press ":wq" to save and exit

[todiswed01]

This is becoming tiresome, and yet I remain diplomatic to yet another person who responded without reading what I typed. Let us pretend that I do not have a Postsecondary degree in computer science. In fact, do not pretend. Now let’s explore how yet we once again failed to communicate.

Really?? Who cares? I cannot access opt/.filetool.lst as there is no file manager. Installing a file manager does not help. If one restarts after installing a file manager, then the file manager is deleted.

Not if the emelfm, glib1 and gtk1 extensions are placed in a folder named /tce

This is becoming tiresome. What is so hard about step-by-step? What do you people feel to the need to show that your flawed documentation has value if only a few pointers are given? Yet another person who responded without reading what I typed. Let us pretend that I do not have a Postsecondary degree in computer science. In fact, do not pretend. You quoted my words without reading them. Amazing. Here it is again, so that you and the world can see for yourselves.

Really?? Who cares? I cannot access opt/.filetool.lst as there is no file manager. Installing a file manager does not help. If one restarts after installing a file manager, then the file manager is deleted.

Not if the emelfm, glib1 and gtk1 extensions are placed in a folder named /tce

Here is a question: If I cannot access one pertinent file, what makes you think that I could access the other pertinent file? This part of your response has no validity.

With the beaver, glib1 and gtk1 extensions placed in the /tce folder, the "so simple it is self explanatory" beaver text editor will work.

Alternately, without loading any extensions, you can use the "vi" text editor from a terminal window:

1. "vi /opt/.filetool.lst"
2. Press the "insert" key
3. Use the arrow keys to navigate to where you want to edit and edit.
4. Press ":wq" to save and exit

The preceding is useless since as I said time, and time again, I cannot access files in tinycore.

It seems to me that you Tinycore folks are unwilling to post step-by-step instructions out of fear that the documentation  (I use that term most loosely) at http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html might appear useless to the public, especially if the public is coming from windows or a larger Linux distro.
I would greatly appreciate step by step instructions from some with a windows or Ubuntu background.
Please not waste each others time if all we are going to do is rehash tinycore's flawed documentation. I have stated my capabilities & experiences with Linux. My only obstacle in tinycore is the documentation and people who regurgitate it to me.

[roberts]

Seems to me that you need a turnkey system which Tiny is not.
Seems to me that you need a true "vendor" that can support you.
A vendor with a documentation section or perhaps books like Windows & Ubuntu both offer.
If you think Core Concepts is useless then best to move on.

[todiswed01]

Seems to me that you need a trunkey system which Tiny is not.
Seems to me that you need a true "vendor" that can support you.

I think you meant “Turnkey Linux.” Nope, not for me, for it would not be enough of a challenge.

Seems to me that you need a true "vendor" that can support you.

Neither grub nor Lilo are considered to be vendors, yet I've not had issue with...grub.

[/quote]

If you think Core Concepts is useless then best to move on.

I refuse to believe that your opinion represents all of those associated with the inception of “Tinycore Linux.” Therefore, since I can also see the potential of Tinycore, I shall not be moving on. I’ve stated that I am not a Linux Guru, nor a windows IT. However, tinycore is well within my ability as evidenced by the examples of what I’ve accomplished in Linux. Step-by-step learning is also known as “rote learning” one of the simplest forms of learning. Google “common learning styles” and education administration if you doubt me. I believe that there are those in Tinycore community who do not want my question answered step-by-step as it would undermine the credibility of http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html, which is most certainly not step-by-step.

The greatest challenge for anyone moving from a larger Linux distribution (Ubuntu, Suse or PCLinuxOS 2009) to Tinycore will be http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html. What is my proof that it is invalid? Compare the install dcumentation: http://www.tinycorelinux.com/install.html to the post install documentation found at: http://www.tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html. Note the huge difference.


Let's ban him before more members of the public read this, or let's edit his post, then ban him. We post after his post & he'll never be able to say anything else.

[roberts]

Do you know what a partition is? Does restore=hdXY confuse you?
Can you possibly try the following assuming you have an available partition hda2:
boot: tinycore restore=hda2 tce=hda2

[todiswed01]

Do you know what a partition is?

Mk2fs.ext3 has always worked for me.

Does restore=hdXY confuse you?

Is this your way of asking if I know /dev/sda (hd0,0) & /dev/hda?

Does restore=hdXY confuse you?

Yes, especially since it is non-standard. There are no boot options for getting there. The system boots into “X” as soon as grub is selected.

Can you possibly try the following assuming you have an available partition hda2:
boot: tinycore restore=hda2 tce=hda2

Is this in terminal? Hda2 is my swap. If I add another disk, can I cfdisk & then run your commands there, or say hdb1? Maybe resize hda1 & create hda3?
well, good night for now

[roberts]

Did you inheirt this system? How did you possibly install it using grub?
Is this a hard drive or a flash type device? If flash you will need another boot option "waitusb=5"
You stated that grub is no problem for you.
Don't you know how to edit a grub boot enry so that you can add the boot options that I mentioned?
After them after "quiet". So simple.

[curaga]

Core Concepts is indeed not a step-by-step howto.

Adding the bootcodes "tce=hdaX restore=hdaX" to the boot arguments line (the kernel line) and a reboot should do what you desire. Use the partition where you wish your extensions and backup to be stored.

If you need an easier-to-use editor than command line vi, there are many available in the appbrowser. Of course the editor won't persist after a reboot, since it was installed before specifying these options; after the reboot, everything persists.

Robert's example is valid for the syslinux/isolinux bootloaders.

[roberts]

If he is using grub as he stated, then no editor, no file manager is needed. Those boot codes are only initially needed and grub builtin editiing capabilites will do. The only exception is if this is a flash device then the wait option will need to "editied" to grub's menu.lst permanetly.

If he used a cdrom to do this grub install, then use the cdrom to boot with the boot options I have supplied. That will setup basic persistency.

[todiswed01]

Core Concepts is indeed not a step-by-step howto.

Thanks, that is what I’ve been saying.

Core Concepts is indeed not a step-by-step howto.

Adding the bootcodes "tce=hdaX restore=hdaX" to the boot arguments line (the kernel line) and a reboot should do what you desire. Use the partition where you wish your extensions and backup to be stored.

Acknowledged!!
Thanks for the clarity!! Things can be simple.

Core Concepts is indeed not a step-by-step howto.


Robert's example is valid for the syslinux/isolinux bootloaders.

I loathe syslinux

Thanks for the info, but I will not play with it tonight. It’s too late here.
I anticipate great results, so again, thanks.