Thanks gwalther, I looked at minefield but I don't think it comes with flash preinstalled. Thats the problem, I can't find, or don't know how to get,download older version of flash to work. Thought of d/l older tc but believe the apps will still be updated, having the getflash11. Can't believe how difficult it is to get this. This is how I learn though, trial and error. Can be aggravating, not pressed to get this, have other pcs working. May try minefield later on, looks interesting, thanks again.