Tiny Core Linux
Tiny Core Base => TCB Talk => Topic started by: roberts on March 23, 2011, 08:22:46 PM
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Just when you think that things could not get any worse, Ibiblio down affecting our repositories, Bluehost take down of website, forums, and wiki and now...
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tinycorelinux/
This individual Dave Bukov, aka grimaldo, pretending to be the developer of Tiny Core Linux.
And, yes, of course, asking donations for his work.
When I contacted Sourceforge with a take down request, I was told that if it is copyrighted material that I need to contact legal and prove it. It is not copyrighted. It is GPL. But pretending to be the developer seeking donations for someone else's work is fraud.
The isos posted at Sourceforge are md5 the same as the ones I post here. Unchanged!
Perhaps someone in our community with legal experience will step forward to help stop this fraud.
Sourceforge promotes fraud. Sourceforge is a disservice to the FOSS community.
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First of all, a copyright on the software does exist, even if it is GPL'ed; the GPL is a license, and relies on copyright in order to work. (see http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/)
Now, because the terms of the GPL require free redistribution, in general the person doing this would be perfectly within their legal rights granted to them by the GPL. Such is the nature of freedom; some can abuse it.
However, the GPL adds an important stipulation to that -- the distributor must either provide the source code, or a written offer for it. There is such an offer included in the ISOs, but it is from the developers, not from grimaldo. Since grimaldo is distributing binaries, he must also distribute source; what if the the real TinyCore hosting went down; he must take responsibility.
So, you should
1) Find the copyright owner of a file included in the ISO. This is usually the developer who is the principal author of the file. It does not work to just say "Linux/Glibc/BusyBox is GPL'ed"; it must be the copyright owner who presses legal action.
2) Find documentation that he is. This usually means either a changelog, or his name somewhere in the file.
3) Have the copyright owner send this information to SourceForge, labeling it as a ``GPL violation''.
Note: I am not a lawer, this is not legal advice.
[edit:] Derp, you are the lead developer. But the trick is finding documentation that you own the copyright. So even if you did write a file, it may be easier to just find a different file that has someone's name it it and say to them ``Hey, send this to SourceForge.''
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Hi roberts
That really stinks. This guy posted 7 other projects as his own on the same day. Maybe emailing
the owners of some of those projects to get a few more complaints lodged against this guy
might help some.
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I'm also not a laywer, but was just wondering whether bringing this issue to a "wider audience" would result in a different answer from Sourceforge.
I'd imagine that bringing it to the attention of Linux news sites like
http://lwn.net
http://www.h-online.com/news/
http://www.phoronix.com
could help to get more traction.
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Facing to similar stories few times in other segment I have some experience even if I'm not a lawyer.
First point is the country if this guy. I he is in US it makes situation more complicated due to the different US legal environment.
Next point does any party have a (US) patent for TC? If he got (what I doubt) it is a long and costly legal case. In such case the crucial question who was the first and it must be proven by parties. Lets see TC.
SourceForge project was registered on March 21, 2011 while TC in December 2008. You can use domain registration date for example as an evidence. Alsi you can refer to DISTROWATCH article, reviews in newspapers, CD's distributed by newspapers with CD, last years LINUX exhibition in CA.
Product introduction at TC WEB:
Tiny Core Linux is a very small (10 MB) minimal Linux GUI Desktop. It is based on Linux 2.6 kernel, Busybox, Tiny X, and Fltk. The core runs entirely in ram and boots very quickly. Also offered is Micro Core a 6 MB image that is the console based engine of Tiny Core. CLI versions of Tiny Core's program allows the same functionality of Tiny Core's extensions only starting with a console based system.
Product description at SF:
Tiny Core Linux is a very small (10 MB) minimal Linux GUI Desktop. It is based on Linux 2.6 kernel, Busybox, Tiny X, and Fltk. The core runs entirely in ram and boots very quickly.
No comment. Please take above and submit officially to SF proving you are the owner of TinyCore. And of course with a friendly note giving a certain time to delete SF product otherwise you initiate a legal action.
It would be worth to check SF contract BTW. I'm pretty sure that there is paragraph about ownership, copyright, .... It can be referred also that other party is breaking their contract.
One more thing, you can register TC logo as a TradeMark. It is less costly than patent but gives some protection. TM is strictly for a graphical appearance of the logo related to the product and not about content. What they are checking is there a similar logo and/or name in the same segment as yours so yours can be misinterpreted and identified as the other.
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I'm also not a laywer, but was just wondering whether bringing this issue to a "wider audience" would result in a different answer from Sourceforge.
I'd imagine that bringing it to the attention of Linux news sites like
http://lwn.net
http://www.h-online.com/news/
http://www.phoronix.com
could help to get more traction.
First I would try to arrange it with Geeknet (SF owner) using facts above. If no success, check other projects of this guy. If there are others, contact their original authors and go back to SF jointly.
If no success, find a layer in the community to submit an official claim to SF.
If still no success, go to public.
If still no success, go to the Court as a final solution. But it can't happen in an OpenSource community. There are business drivers, lost millions, ... Just a a ....
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Extract from Terms and Conditions ( http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sitelegal/wiki/Terms_of_Use ):
Prohibited Usage ¶
In addition to the above, you may not access or use SourceForge.net for any purpose other than that for which Geeknet makes it available.
Without limiting any other remedies, Geeknet may suspend or terminate your SourceForge.net account if we suspect that you have engaged in unlawful or prohibited activity in connection with SourceForge.net.
Geeknet reserves the right, in its sole discretion to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Geeknet's sole discretion violates this provision. Prohibited activity includes, but is not limited to:
1. illegal or tortious activity, including child .ography, fraud, trafficking in obscene material, drug dealing, gambling, harassment, stalking (including using any information obtained on or via SourceForge.net to harass, abuse, stalk, or harm another person), spamming, copyright infringement, patent infringement, or theft of trade secrets;
2. using any information obtained from SourceForge.net in order to contact, advertise to, solicit, or sell to any user without such user's prior explicit consent (including non-commercial contacts like chain letters);
3. compiling or collecting Associated Content, Site Materials, or Sponsor Content from SourceForge.net as part of a database or other work;
4. interfering with, disrupting, or creating an undue burden on SourceForge.net or the networks or services connected to SourceForge.net, including, without limitation, any attempt to circumvent the access controls or security measures of SourceForge.net;
5. accessing SourceForge.net by any means other than through interfaces provided by Geeknet, unless otherwise specifically authorized by Geeknet in a separate, prior written agreement;
6. circumventing, disabling or otherwise interfering with security-related features of SourceForge.net, or features that prevent or restrict use or copying of any Materials or enforce limitations on use of SourceForge.net or the Materials therein;
7. attempting to impersonate another user or person, using the user account of another person, and selling or otherwise transferring your user account, or otherwise misrepresenting your affiliation with a person or entity; and,
8. selling, reselling or offering for any commercial purposes, any portion of, use of, or access to SourceForge.net, except where specifically endorsed or approved by Geeknet.
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Do not be quick to judge. I'd recommend finding out what is going on and giving the individual an opportunity to take corrective action. This may be accidental and not an intentional attempt to claim ownership of any of these projects.
He is creating a distro based on Tiny Core Linux, called "Boothorn DistrOS." The boot.msg file for it includes "based on Tiny Core Linux."
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http://grimaldo.users.sourceforge.net/ this is all project shared by "Dave Bukove"
Emails are in the respective sites
GRUB Invaders http://www.erikyyy.de/invaders/
RIPLinuX http://www.tux.org/pub/people/kent-robotti/looplinux/rip/
Puppy Studio was created by a l0wt3ch ? is user of puppy forum
Aptosid is by Stefan Lippers-Hollmannn , look for his email on this page finding "gmx" http://manual.aptosid.com/en/cd-dl-burning-en.htm
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Do not be quick to judge. I'd recommend finding out what is going on and giving the individual an opportunity to take corrective action. This may be accidental and not an intentional attempt to claim ownership of any of these projects.
Agree to avoid lawyers, judge as long as possible.
But how product description can be the same letter by letter by accident? I would not try to negotiate to him, wasted time, only Geeknet referring that he is breaking Terms an Conditions first.
BTW I'm sure he is reading this topic.
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But how product description can be the same letter by letter by accident?
I don't know why either, but the user is knowledgeable about Linux from what I gathered in my research. It doesn't make sense that someone would blatantly claim ownership of these projects. That's why I suggested simply asking him. I would do so myself, but I have no standing and it would be disrespectful of Robert's ownership of Tiny Core.
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i proceeded to Report inappropriate content (https://sourceforge.net/project/report_inappropriate.php?group_id=515564) to sourceforge
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I normally try to give people the benefit of the doubt, however, in this case I find that very difficult
considering this cut and paste from the overview page.
Tiny Core Linux by grimaldo
[EDIT]: In my opinion this is a claim of authorship.
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That's why I suggested simply asking him. I would do so myself, but I have no standing and it would be disrespectful of Robert's ownership of Tiny Core.
You are right, it's Roberts task officially to submit a claim.
However, SourceForge is about open source and community. Therefore nothing wrong if community members reporting they see a fraud. More report can be more efficient, support and validate an offricial claim of author.
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This individual Dave Bukov, aka grimaldo, pretending to be the developer of Tiny Core Linux.
Where, exactly, does he claim to be the developer of Tiny Core Linux? I don't find such a claim.
And, yes, of course, asking donations
Which is perfectly in line with the GPL.
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I think it is worth mentioning clearly the developer to be in norm
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this cut and paste from the overview page.
Tiny Core Linux by grimaldo
[EDIT]: In my opinion this is a claim of authorship.
Looking at the page's HTML source, that looks more like automatically generated content (i.e., outside of the guy's control):
<section id="project-header">
<div id="project-title">
<h2>Tiny Core Linux</h2>
<p id="maintainers">
by
<a href="/users/grimaldo">grimaldo</a>
</p>
</div>
</section>
In addition, it wants to describe the "maintainer," not the "developer." And for the SourceForge branch / fork / whatever, that person clearly is the maintainer, whether we like it or not.
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In addition, it wants to describe the "maintainer," not the "developer." And for the SourceForge branch / fork / whatever, that person clearly is the maintainer, whether we like it or not.
Do not think so. Ask a lawyer :)
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Hm.... Project Home Page link at SF now points to www.tinycorelinux.com see http://sourceforge.net/projects/tinycorelinux/support
Interesting. Is it possible that this guy simply has no any glue what he is doing?
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Equivalent seems to have occured with "his" other projects as well.
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Umm, I did not see asking for donations from the first time I checked til now.
http://sourceforge.net/project/project_donations.php?group_id=515564
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In my first post in this topic, when I said I contacted Sourceforge this is what I sent:
Re: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tinycorelinux/
It has been brought to my attention that a certain individual by the name of Dave Bukov aka grimaldo has very recently registered the above named project, Tiny Core Linux.
I am the founder and lead developer of Tiny Core Linux, see http://www.tinycorelinux.com (hosted at bluehost.com). My project was first published on Dec 01, 2008. My project is registered at Freshmeat see: http://freshmeat.net/projects/tinycorelinux as well as DistroWatch see: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=tinycore, and Ibiblio see:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/
From the above you can see that my project is very active and on-going.
By allowing this Dave Bukov, aka grimaldo, to register my project and for you to host it is very inappropriate. By the above you can see that individual has completely copied my content. I don't know this individual and I certainly don't know their motivation. It is therefore incumbent upon you to take down http://sourceforge.net/projects/tinycorelinux/
Regards,
Robert Shingledecker
When Chris at Sourceforge failed to take any action, I sent the followup:
Chris,
So If I want to host my new project, let me call it Ubuntu, then you are fine with hosting it? Really?
Your procedure is to accept any project without first verifying that an existing project by that name exists?
This is not copyright material. It is GPL. This individual can certainly fork my project, but it should not be named the same. and Sourcefore should not allow such.
Your procedure for hosting any project without checking that it is an existing project is a huge disservice to the FOSS community.
Regards,
Robert Shingledecker
This is not about distributing binaries and charging for it. I am well aware of the GPL. This is about scamming (fraud) claiming to be the tinycorelinux project and its developer. it is even more apparent when the support link points back to the real (our) project,
With all the links that I provided Sourceforge in my first email, it would have taken 2 minutes to verify our project is the target of a scam.
Sourceforge, shame on you. Shame on you, for having your policy backwards, allowing any FOSS project to be so easily scammed. For placing the burden on the real honest valid project thereby allowing the scam to occur so easily.
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Sent a short mail to author of RIPLinux, another victim.
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is not the only other victim, but I could not find information about other
http://grimaldo.users.sourceforge.net/ this is all project shared by "Dave Bukove"
Emails are in the respective sites
GRUB Invaders http://www.erikyyy.de/invaders/
RIPLinuX http://www.tux.org/pub/people/kent-robotti/looplinux/rip/
Puppy Studio was created by a l0wt3ch ? is user of puppy forum
Aptosid is by Stefan Lippers-Hollmannn , look for his email on this page finding "gmx" http://manual.aptosid.com/en/cd-dl-burning-en.htm
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it should not be named the same. and Sourcefore should not allow such.
If he had chosen a different name to distribute the identical binaries, wouldn't you then be even more annoyed?
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Frank, I don't know why you are so defending of this but...
A different name with the same binaries, I would likely not know. It would certainly be embarrassing to claim it is EliteOS and when booted one would see Tiny Core Linux. So likely not the same binaries.
Heck, the guy can sell tiny core on ebay,as far as I care. There are many companies that sell FOSS CD distributions on DistroWatch. I do not care. But claiming to be the maintainer/developer and registering my project as his own on a developers site, is quite different.
Obviously you disagree and likely I will not change your mind. Say, Frank why don't you try to register a project called Ubuntu on Sourceforge?
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Hmm, perhaps - as sourceforge has not taken action so far upon request of taking that project down - directly requesting ownership of the project with said name to be handed over to the original developers instead of leaving it with the current holder could be a possible approach??
And Frank, just as as a reference example:
http://www.slackware.com/trademark/trademark.php
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roberts, I am trying to bring some measure and reason into this thing. We heard large and dramatic allegations in this thread right from the beginning. Just look at the thread's title. In contrast to the huge allegations, there is very, very little actual evidence of a crime. I mentioned early on that I find no link, no page where this grimaldo guy claims to be the author of TinyCore. Until now, such a link was not identified by anyone else, either. His only "crime" so far is that he registered a SF project under an unfortunately chosen name. That is not the same as claiming authorship.
You are an experienced and seasoned developer. Have you ever considered the possibility that your opponent is perhaps just a misinformed, 19-year old college kid? A friendly email might have been enough to bring the guy back on track.
I don't know grimaldo. From what I see he does not appear to be overly bright, prepared, or experienced. It will be easy to get rid of him with a bit of peer pressure. One of the board's users is working on that. It has all the characteristics of a witch-hunt.
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Well, one interpretation is that a friendly Tiny Core Linux fun is giving a helpful hand making TC binaries available at one of the World's largest site which is the proper place for such projects, guiding vistors to the official WEB site. There are already 79 downloads. Great!
Let's help Microsoft too. Windows Mobile need help due to Android.
Frank, your are optimistic. Do not say it as intentionally to harm and demage TC on to make money. Right. But has no any sense and it has no place at SF or similar sites is true. I beleave.
BTW, anyone ready to register
tinycorelinux.info
tinycorelinux.net
tinycorelinux.biz
tinycorelinux.ws
tinycorelinux.us
or
tinycorelinux.ca
even? These are free.
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Quote from: Rich on Today at 02:35:24 AM
this cut and paste from the overview page.
Tiny Core Linux by grimaldo
[EDIT]: In my opinion this is a claim of authorship.
Looking at the page's HTML source, that looks more like automatically generated content (i.e., outside of the guy's control):
That may be, now if only he had control over something like a description where he could clarify that,
but I guess that's not possible.
When I checked the SF site about an hour after roberts first post all of "his projects" home links except
for aptosid and riplinux pointed back to SF pages. He was smart enough to get those two right but
not Tinycore? He corrected that "error" 9 or 10 hours ago. I don't know what Meta4 is but googling
grubinvaders, grubtint, and puppystudio found that they where created by other people. I didn't check
the donations links last night but as of today they all say "no donations".
You are an experienced and seasoned developer. Have you ever considered the possibility that your opponent is perhaps just a misinformed, 19-year old college kid? A friendly email might have been enough to bring the guy back on track.
I don't know grimaldo. From what I see he does not appear to be overly bright, prepared, or experienced. It will be easy to get rid of him with a bit of peer pressure. One of the board's users is working on that. It has all the characteristics of a witch-hunt.
Even a 19 year old college kid knows right from wrong, you do not take credit for someone else's work
whether implied or blatantly, they do teach that in college, don't they?
Witch hunt? Personally I think that everyone has shown a lot of self restraint.
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I don't think my emails to Sourceforge were out of line, and in fact they are very factual. Sourceforge could have easily corrected this. They instead blew me off.
I have a big problem with the policy. Allow anything and thus make valid projects suffer. Most developer project sites, have a waiting period, so they can validate that there is not an existing project.
I do not want to promote bad conduct, but imagine, with Sourceforge's policy if we all went there and regsitered Ubuntu, RedHat, Suse, Mint, Knoppix, Puppy, etc., with each of our names as the "maintainer". Just upload and iso, click on donate, Viola! Look at my cool project.
Now do you get the picture? Sourceforge need to change their policy. Their policy promotes bad conduct.
Do you think those projects would agree with you and Sourceforge's policy? Sourceforge should respect the FOSS community that they proport to support.
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I normally try to give people the benefit of the doubt, however, in this case I find that very difficult
considering this cut and paste from the overview page.
Tiny Core Linux by grimaldo
[EDIT]: In my opinion this is a claim of authorship.
& here is a reply I got from 'grimaldo' via sourceforge (In reply to an email to him pointing out he could not claim to be the developer of TC:
"I've made no claims, just posted a couple images. What is the problem? Are the images I posted not open source? Not GPL Licensed? What is is?"
My reply to this was:
> You should have consulted the TC development team before setting up
> the Sourceforge site. It is not helpful to have two competing sites
> for the same project. In particular new users will be confused as to
> where to go for authoritative information & help. TC has flourished
> incredibly well under it's exiting hosting arrangements. Your action
> will merely fragment & dilute the project, to the detriment of users &
> developers.
to which I got the reply:
not if they read the text on the site.
sorry you're not happy, but I have my reasons. If you'd like to be a little less hostile I might be willing to discuss more. Are you a TC developer?
my reply:
No - not a developer, but I have contributed documentation to the wiki & did contribute to the predecessor of TC (DamnSmallLinux). i.e. I have been following & using this project for a long time & don't like to see it treated this way. This shows you are annoying the users, never mind the developers, of this project.
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As I said my issue is with more with Sourceforge for allowing such conduct.
I don't believe that Sourceforge would allow such to be done to the major distributions.
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I'm not familiar with all the ins and outs of free software, but even if there's no copyright/trademark violation what grimaldo is doing seems like a kind of plagiarism (which applies even to works in the public domain).
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The sourceforge web site link points to http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/tinycorelinux/
Roberts, maybe you should add a great big "By Robert Shingledecker" on that page.
That will add to the foolish factor of his sourceforge page.
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what grimaldo is doing seems like a kind of plagiarism
To which he replied:
I've made no claims, just posted a couple images.
Indeed, he does not claim to have authored Tiny Core. He created a "tinycore" project on SourceForge and is hosting the images there. The real (and valid) complaint is that users will be confused and think the SourceForge site is the real site.
To which he replied:
If you'd like to be a little less hostile I might be willing to discuss more.
I think grimaldo should avoid even the appearance of impropriety, but you can't force someone to be respectful of you or your work. Tiny Core is Robert's gem so let him handle it as he sees fit without interference.
As I said my issue is with more with Sourceforge for allowing such conduct.
I am sure hundreds, if not thousands of projects come and go on sourceforge daily. I would not expect a human to audit each one of those for violations when created let alone monitor them. It would be far too labor intensive. Their process for violations is simply to send proof to their legal department. They should take it from there.
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I have sent proof to dmca@sourceforge.net
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Well, with his latest act of provocation that projects owner on sourceforge himself has definitely removed all benefits of a doubt:
Regardless, nothing is stolen. Those stating such silliness are recommended to read "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric Raymond and to review the license granted by Mr. Shingledecker at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html
After this, IMHO most blatant and provocative gpl violation has become an essential issue, as all the person does host are .isos and some metafiles which seem to contain just various checksums and url's; while the whole infrastructure of sourceforge is supposed to host primarily source code.
Perhaps someone with a sourceforge account could challenge him to provide the sources of TC (on occasion I happened to find I could no longer log in into my account of many years) - e.g. in the same reviews section where he placed his statement: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tinycorelinux/reviews
Looks more like "The Cathedral and the Thief" to me... :-\
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SourceForge intention is to provide development ifrastructure for opensource project, like WEB site, SVN, trouble tricketing, mailing lists, etc. Usage as a file sharing server is legally within Terms and Conditions legally but for sure not in line with Geeknet's intention.
This is pitty to wast our time for such stupidity. You can't make a deal with him.
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Here's his latest:
"p.s. Due to the childishness of the administrators at the Tiny Core Forum I was banned as I attempted to post regarding this issue. I guess they don't want to hear from me, but they are willing to make fantastic assumptions. It would be one thing if I was abusing the forums, but I was just trying to respond to some libelous accusations. I never even posted once, and was banned as I typed. I can no longer recommend Tiny Core Linux due to unprofessional conduct of it's administration. Boothorn Distros will be changing the distro its ISO is based on for the next release...
posted by grimaldo 5 hours ago"
edit: This whole thing is getting some attention elsewhere (wonder who 'Anonymous' in the comments is though...)
http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2011/03/tiny-core-fraud-on-source-forge.html
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You mean the latest was grimaldo's removing of negative comments posted at Sourcegeforge on his tatics.
While the GPL certainly allows distributing binaries, doing so means that one must not rely on the upstream project.
It does not grant a license to commandeer the upstream's project name. This project on Sourceforge not only commandeered our project name, "Tiny Core Linux" by grimaldo, but has numerous links upstream. It is a bogus project.
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If there was a joint "this is a good will act" conversation, I might believe it was so.
But I don't see any, so to me it looks like domain name parking.
I vote for trade mark registration.
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Looks like there is a relation to
http://en.sourceforge.jp/projects/sfnet_boothorn/releases/
where iso's and metafiles - besides from TC of a plethora of operating systems - seem to be hosted since earlier dates...
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Hey my comments are just deleted at SF. Shit. Shame on SF.
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It is in process. Tiny Core Linux TM Pending.
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Abnormal situation
- Ok, be serious and strive within the limits; it would be nice to have an easily perceptible trademark policy (with your signature on it, Robert) after having trade mark registered.
- At the center of TC splash screen, on booting, put a vivid button (again, with your signature on it) when it's clicked pointing the new comers back to TC site or forum.
Uhhh; AGREE
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Shorty this is my view:
- SourceForge is a great pleace offering complete infrastucture for developers including site hosting, SVN, CMS, trouble ticketing, mailing lists, blog, etc. But! It is not a file sharing server.
- Just sharing files is for sure is against the intention of SF owners.
- Your activity doesn't add any value to the project.
- To share someone's else work against his explicit request is fraud.
- To delete all negative feedback and make anonym self support post is childish.
- To wast others time for your entertainment is crime.
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I mean, blocking my mac address from accessing the forum?
Now that is interesting... ::)
Patiently waiting for pointers how that could be done...
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You can block IP Addresses using Iptables.
I don't know if that actually happened.
I don't know how they would even know his IP Address.
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You can block IP Addresses using Iptables.
I don't know if that actually happened.
I don't know how they would even know his IP Address.
No need for iptables. It's a built-in function of SMF forum engine to restrict a user based on IP.
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Umm... IP and MAC address are different things, the user did not refer to IP...
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Umm... IP and MAC address are different things, the user did not refer to IP...
This indicates simply luck of technical knowledge.
BTW, in a hosted environment you do not have access to IP tables and IP tables doesn't work without influencing other hosted services (other WEB sites) access.
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I have removed grimaldo's post, we do not owe him a voice or stage to further his antics. After all, he allows no critical post on his bogus page, so fair is fair. I was going to remove the posts that follow, but don't see the need, though I stopped after deleting one or two.
I think he has wasted enough of our time, and I should have just taken down his post from the start even though his own words revealed his ill intentions as well as his lack of any merit in his case.
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As an owner of another forum where time to time similar debates occour my policy is not to remove posts except when they are promoting legally illegal activities or very personal. Community itself can manage the situation in short time. Keeping the flames can help later to justify happenings and position poster for readers. Posts do not harm in 2-3 weeks time while their deletion gives munition to the poster.
This is just my policy.
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I understand your point of view, and almost always agree with that approach. And my timing was not ideal, nor was my overall handling. But he has already hijacked our name, and does not need to also be able to hijack our forum and divert even more of our time, adding insult to injury.
No offense by me was meant to our community here, and this is my last involvement on the subject of grimaldo. The modest amount of time and energy I have available for TC will remain focused on my normal stuff.
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It seems that Grimaldo has taken to heart some of the complaints made about his Tiny Core Sourceforge website.
For one he has changed the name to Tiny Core Linux Metadata with the stated purpose that:
This project produces metadata for Tiny Core Linux ISO images.
and he also says in the files section that:
This project was founded and created by Robert Shingledecker.
(C) 2008,2009,2010,2011 Robert Shingledecker.
Furthermore he now offers source code:
These files are provided here for your convenience. Be aware that this source tree may or may not be up to date at any given time. For Tiny Core Linux information, support and the complete file repository including source code please refer to the Tiny Core Linux site at http://tinycorelinux.com. If you have any problems acquiring the source code please feel free to send me an email at grimaldo@users.sourceforge.net and I will mail it to you on DVD-R for cost of postage and production(*).
Source for the metadata is the ISO, and the code that creates the metadata is not released yet.
•= (DVD-R distribution offer is valid for at least 3 years from the date a file was first posted)
Finally his main project that was called Boothorn Distros which was essentially a remaster of TinyCoreLinux to download distro iso files and add them to a startup grub menu has now had almost all the files that cantained any Tinycore code removed. This is probably a followup to his desire to release his Boothorn Distro using another base system due to the flame war between the two projects.
I think that this is a classic case of someone trying to learn from mistakes and trying to do something to correct some of them. It may not satisfy everyone ... that remains to be seen ... and so much bad blood was created that I don't know if it can ever be dissipated, but this does hopefully start to move things in a better direction. I think both sides have said a few things that they wish they could take back but it is probably too late. I do hope that in the end cooler minds will prevail when and if solutions are found to satisfy everyone.
For the record ... I am not trying to support either side over the other in this issue and I have no direct connections to either side in the dispute. I just hope to see peace restored, if that might be possible.
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Communication is promoting fraud. Think about it :)
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Project is gone. Doesn't exist at SourceForge.
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Probably a matter of definition, but I would rather call it modified (including name and description) than gone.
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http://sourceforge.net/news/?group_id=515564
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This is what he says on that site:
Is Robert Shingledecker a man or a mob?
Instead of getting down off his high horse and sending me an email, Robert Shingledecker has instead elected to whip the users of his forums into a frenzy and send them out to attack me on the internet.
Robert, are you so insecure that you cannot face me yourself? It's just email, don't be afraid...
I don't think this does our community justice, as I didn't see anyone here trying to "attack" him. Instead I read helpful suggestions and moderation from most our forum members.
I pity this got personal. I guess we can move on now?
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http://sourceforge.net/blog/another-lesson-learned-clear-communication-is-key/
A blog post on the issue from yesterday.
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We reached back out to the Tiny Core Linux team through IRC chat to clear up the misunderstanding
The content of this blog post is along the same lines of the explanations given and positions expressed by sourceforge in #tinycorelinux.
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http://sourceforge.net/blog/another-lesson-learned-clear-communication-is-key/
A blog post on the issue from yesterday.
I tried to say that early on:
Do not be quick to judge. I'd recommend finding out what is going on and giving the individual an opportunity to take corrective action. This may be accidental and not an intentional attempt to claim ownership of any of these projects.
There may be ruffled feathers among the parties involved, but fortunately the issue was eventually resolved.
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It has to do with morals and ethics and if what you say is true and that person is representing himself as either you or author of Tiny Core, then:
a) ask them nicely if they will specify - "we didn't author the base package - we just added "THIS" (assuming they enhanced "this")
b) if they post that then they did TC a favor getting the package into the community.
c) if they suggest they wrote it, they deserve a truckload of legal bricks dropped on them and
b) the person who paid them or encouraged them is the real threat - unless you are aware of why this particular person would make such a blunder, and
c) are you sure that person is a real person and not a front for someone else?