Tiny Core Linux
Tiny Core Base => Other architectures => Topic started by: bmarkus on May 06, 2017, 11:40:10 AM
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Please tell, which board and processor architecture would be supported in your opinion?
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Good to see that no demand for other boards. More free time :)
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First Thank you and congratulation for the absolutely wonderfull TinyCoreLinux : because of its Read-only concept, this is THE perfect Linux for embedded IOT. :)
I would like to suggest all OrangePi (http://www.orangepi.org/) hardware, mainly because :
- they are one of the most popular/serious competitor of RaspberryPi
- compared to Raspberry Pi , they are way cheaper (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1553371)
- There is a lot of different hardware versions, perfect for IOT
- This chinese company seems to have understood that playing WITH the OpenSource community can be mutually beneficial.
Development should not be that hard for gurus like you knowing that :
- One forum member has already succeeded to port TinyCoreLinux to some OrangePi model (see here (http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,20394.0.html)), and some others members seems to be interested....
- Armbian (https://www.armbian.com/) already supports it fine
- various OrangePi sources can be found on GitHub
- If I remember correctly, I've read somewhere (maybe here) that the latest Linux kernel natively supports H3 processors
Best regards,
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Hi Béla,
I just started an other thread to discuss the pros and cons of getting tinycore on the new Asus Tinker Board.
Sorry I did not see this thread , TinkerBoard was not mentioned in any post according to the search function.
In my opinion, the tinkerboard is a good SBC to investigate and see if it is fit for a tinycore blessing.
It is fast, it has got arm processors and a formfactor that would make a lot op people think it is a raspberry pi.
Surely there will be differences that will be difficulties to overcome. But to me it looks like a promising prospect.
I will not list all tech specs, as the Asus website lists them now , but to me the gigabit LAN without usb2 link , the 2 gig RAM and HD audio chip are the main upgrades from the pi3.
As it close to the pi you know well, perhaps you can see if it is possible, and at what what cost.
Greetz M-H
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The answer will likely depend on each person’s use of TC.
IMHO, TC is great as a portable desktop+rescue Linux system (on an USB stick) because it is, as far as I know, the only modern Linux distribution with a software repository that can be installed on a Windows-compatible filesystem.
As a consequence, although it is not quite a “board”, I would vote for improved X11 support of laptops.
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I would vote for improved X11 support of laptops.
What do you have in mind?
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Nothing in particular, because I do not know much about the internals of TC. I just noticed that X11 fails to start on quite a few laptops I tested it on…
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Please feel free to start a thread detailing which extension you are using (Xvesa, Xfbdev, Xorg) and the errors you get.
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Hi Béla and all,
The Olimex products are of interest to me. They seem to be pro open source as much as possible.
I have not had any experience dealing with them and I have no idea about the quality but they tend to
incorporate some neat features in the OLinuXino designs.
I am saving up for a purchase, hopefully soon.
If I get an extra one, and send it to you, would you be interested in getting it working with tiny core?
Joe
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Hi Béla,
If you're willing to port TCL to OrangePi boards :
- I'm pretty sure that the OrangePi chinese company would certainly be more than happy to freely send you some boards to test, if you'd contact them.
- if not and whenever money is the concern, I'd be happy to sponsor one OrangePi board if this could help
THank you
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Orange pi plus 2e and orange pi pc2 mainline kernel.
That would be awesome.
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Firstly - thank you so much for PiCore!
Lately I have been looking at the
Libre Computer Board AML-S905X-CC 4K (2 or 4gb models)
There are many boards out, but the reason I am interested in this one is from an engineering point of view. Some boards look great, but may suffer greatly in voltage drop when loaded, and result in premature throttling. A stiff power supply and decent short cabling of course fixes that, but when the average user has to solder directly to the pins rather than use the micro-usb connector, it loses it's appeal.
The Libre Computer board claims to use 50% less power than an RPI3, and can operate at a lower voltage than others, but since I don't own one, I can't verify.
The other aspect that I'd have to ask a developer about is how *truly* open is the Libre board hardware, allowing developers to do their thing without having to beg for information or rely on totally closed binary blobs that could become inefficient a few years down the road with new kernel requirements...
And, the Libre board is available online. I could snatch one tomorrow.
Lots of pi-copy boards could be reproduced, with small improvements here and there, but the Libre Computer Board seems to have a real "raison d'etre" beyond just being a Pi competitor....
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Oops - I was wrong, they only come in 1 or 2gb ram versions.
I picked up the 2g version - we'll see how it goes.
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Béla
any chance to see TinyCore on OrangePi ?
Best regards
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+1 for Asus tinker please
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Re: Asus Tinkerboard - if you don't have one already, you may want to wait for the "S" model supposedly arriving any day now. 16gb onboard emmc, better voltage regulation (although most still recommend going through gpio pins and not microusb etc....
Thing is - even with my Libre board, these boards are coming out so fast and furious, it's almost impossible to recommend one! :)
The good thing for bmarkus is that RPI support here fills a good niche, since the Armbian folk won't touch an RPI -- they've got their hands full among all the other boards...
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Supporting Odroid C4 would be awesome !!!! Still waiting HARD for it.......
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I still haven't converted my Libre Computer board (Le Potato) over from Armbian to Tinycore yet.
Just mentioning it, because unlike the RPI's being hard to find, or price-gouged online, the Libre Computer S905X-CC is still about the same price I paid online years ago and available.
Just a thought for the intrepid TC pioneers still waiting for supply chain issues to resolve with RPI's, who might something to hack on.
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Yes Sir,
there are hundreds of different "SBC brands" out there.
....a good Value for money brand are "Orange Pi". which i believe
are available (i think they have about 16 board variants)
C
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Hi Béla and all,
The Olimex products are of interest to me. They seem to be pro open source as much as possible.
I have not had any experience dealing with them and I have no idea about the quality but they tend to
incorporate some neat features in the OLinuXino designs.
I am saving up for a purchase, hopefully soon.
If I get an extra one, and send it to you, would you be interested in getting it working with tiny core?
Joe
I agree for Olimex. Boards are cheap and obey healthy design principles. Software is open-source and I did read some U-boot code and it is healthy, too.
Is there other interested tc developers to fork with Olimex?
Besides, company owner Tsvetan is great innovator:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PslUF-fxo58
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Maybe look into RISC-V architecture, now that the boards are becoming cheaper....
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Maybe look into RISC-V architecture, now that the boards are becoming cheaper....
Is there a board for that?
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Maybe look into RISC-V architecture, now that the boards are becoming cheaper....
Is there a board for that?
....this?
https://milkv.io/
...or this?
https://www.olimex.com/Products/RISC-V/WCH-CH32V003EVT/
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There are a few suggestions on Debian's RISC-V Wiki page (https://wiki.debian.org/RISC-V#Hardware). I'm not sure if it's up to date though.
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I just picked up an X86_64 Radxa X2L (celeron J4125), and it's mating heatsink and fan. Has the RPI 2040 controller chip which one can use perhaps micro-python, thonny or the like.
Runs TCpure64 just fine.
Radxa makes a higher-powered X4 (N100 cpu), and I've been told to make sure there is not an air-gap between the cpu and heatsink.
So kind of hybrid X86_64 and RPI controller SBC computers.
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they have some interesting products
https://radxa.com/products/x/x2l/
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@Béla,
+1 for OrangePi (RiscV and ARM both!)
I purchased a couple of the OrangePi RiscV boards (http://www.orangepi.org/html/hardWare/computerAndMicrocontrollers/details/Orange-Pi-RV2.html) but haven't had the time to really get my hands dirty with them yet as much as I would like. (I did design/build an mITX adapter and case and have tested 6x SATA SSD drives with MDADM but other projects tore me away before much else was accomplished.)
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I bought this one:
https://webstore.vlsi.fi/epages/vlsi.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/2015020901/Categories/%22Circuits%20and%20KITs%22/VSRV
They are audio IC experts, and I suppose this is first "general industrial use" -SOC. Phone codecs are very real time performance critical applications, so they know how to handle linux real time problems.
I think RISC-V MMU is unnecessary complicated, but simplifications need support from linux kernel and RISC-V development groups. I think kernel development and RISC-V groups like tc professional minimalistic approach and efficient code, so I suppose, that support is possible if tc-port is considered...
...and with MMU-development linux problematic device driver mechanism updates automatically, too.
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I received yesterday VLSI Solutions RISC-V32 CAT Board (VSRVE01). Very fast delivery, it ready for tc port right now.
At first glance this stuff is very pro, it is targeted for mobile phone android coders, and documentation is very minimal and good. I suppose, linux kernel is installed in "raw format" and single core.
There is another operating system on board for codec, but I think linux side can be operated stand alone.
There is discussion forum:
https://www.vsdsp-forum.com/phpbb/index.php
..and product pages
https://www.vlsi.fi/en/products/vsrves01.html
Unfortunatelly there might be some privilegies set for these pages.
I can recommend this board for tc port, is is very minimalistic and very professionally documented.
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Kernel ver. 6.12 has some very interesting RT-features:
https://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_6.12
Interrupt handlers are in kernel thread etc.:
https://www.linutronix.de/videos/introduction-to-realtime-linux.mp4?m=1586192378&
That VLSI Solutions board uses currently 6.1, but natural goal is 6,12 with RT.
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this commentary refers to the Rock-PI 4 from Radxa
https://research.exoticsilicon.com/articles/sbc_bootcamp_2021
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Manual for VSRV:
https://www.vlsi.fi/fileadmin/products/vsrv/vsrv_guide.pdf
Implemented RISC-V flavour:
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The exactflavour of the core is RV32IMSU zicsr zifencei.
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--RV32I = "base integer instruction set" (fixed 32bit)
--M = "Extension for Integer Multiplication and Division" (for FIR-filters?)
--S = "Supervisor mode" (=separate mem ja cmds for root space)
--U = "User mode" (=separate mem and cmds for user space)
--zicsr = "Extension for Control and Status Register (CSR) Istructions (physical mem control?)
--zifencei = "Extension for Istruction-Fetch Fence" (for protected mode caches?).
Memory controller:
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LPDDR2 Interface
LPDDR2 is connected to the Instruction and Data Caches of VSRV1, making it themain RAM memory of the unit. RISC-V cannot be run without LPDDR2.
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SD-card is connected to VSDSP6-core bus, not VSRV1RISC-VCORE bus, which may be problem for tc-port.
Those buses are MUX:ed, but mux may prevent boot from SD-card.
UART-boot:
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(I think there is bug on document, these two UART boot sections are on wrong sections)
Boot UART
Connected either to pins RV_TX and RV_RX and/or to VSDSP6’s UARTMUX.
Speed is always RVCLKI/12, where RVCLKI is RISC-V’s internal clock.
UARTMUX
UARTMUX connects to VSRV1 boot UART.
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Anyway, UART-boot is GOOD news for tc port....
DSP-core IS real time:
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Having all these features gives VSDSP high signal processing power beyond its MHz
figures.
The extremely low latency in serving an interrupt (usually significantly below 10 µs even
in a loaded system) allows for implementing a real-time system with audio latencies from
input to output in the order of less than 5 milliseconds.
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Fresh VSRV -board shell documentation:
https://www.vlsi.fi/fileadmin/products/vsrv/vsrv_vsos_shell.pdf
Tristan RISC-V documentation:
https://www.vlsi.fi/fileadmin/vsriscv/VSRV1/TRISTAN_D2.1_Architecture_Description_and_Design_Specification_VLSI.pdf
https://www.vlsi.fi/fileadmin/vsriscv/VSRV1/TRISTAN_D2.2_Design_and_Implementation_of_RISC-V_Cores_and_Extensions_VLSI.pdf
There is SOC data sheet (pin numbers etc.):
https://www.vlsi.fi/fileadmin/datasheets/vsrves01_ds.pdf
Very pro...
Couple of pins:
Pin 33: Mem mux, jumper maybe?
Pin 43/44 UART RV_RX/TX (RV = RISC-V?)
Pin 67/68 UART RX/TX (DSP core UART?)
But Tristan document "rv_uart" UART mux pin missing? How to select RISC-V/DSP core UART? (might be pin 57 rx_ctl)
Boot from SD-card is possible:
https://www.vlsi.fi/fileadmin/news/PressReleaseVSRVES01.pdf
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VSRV Device Tree:
https://www.vsdsp-forum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3241
There is two UART connectors on board, so uart_mux pin is not needed (or it is automatically controlled):
https://www.vlsi.fi/en/support/evaluationboards/vsrves01catboard.html
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I think Rasperry Pi DTO- type problems cannot be solved without physical memory managing system. If I understand correctly, it is optional feature on RISC-C processors:
https://github.com/ultraembedded/riscv/blob/master/doc/riscv_isa_spec.pdf
https://github.com/ultraembedded/riscv/blob/master/doc/riscv_privileged_spec.pdf
"An optional physical memory protection (PMP) unit provides per-hart machine-mode control registers to allow physical memory access privileges (read,write, execute) to be specified for each physical memory region."
Probably this "Flavour" switch "Smpmpmt" (= PMP-base memory types (for cores w/o MMU) (cacheable/uncacheable, idempotency, ordering) .
Not implemented on VSRV1 -board (yet).
I think this is very promising board for new Tinycore port. Very open source and very good documentation. It is RISC-V, and supported for scommunity. Company's business is to sell chips, and there is company strategy to support linux -ports:
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Resources
Below is a list of various free and open resources available now or soon from VLSI Solution. They will be updated regulardly as new information becomes available. Our goal is to in time provide
all information needed for our customers to compile and if necessary modify their own Linux kernels and applications.
Documentation:
VSRV Datasheet (NEW! 250507) - An extremely work-in-progress version at the moment
VSRV User's Guide (NEW! 250528) - What the VSRV chip and VSRVES01 Cat Board are and how to use them
VSRV VSOS Shell (NEW! 250530) - How to use the VSDSP VSOS Shell
VSRV VSOS Audio (NEW! 250617) - Introduction to the VSDSP VSOS audio subsystem
Software:
VSOS Root Image (NEW! 250604) - Latest version of the files for the VSRVES01 Cat Board's microSD card (including both VSDSP/VSOS and RISC-V/Linux)
elf2vri (NEW! 250618) - Linux C source code for program needed to convert Linux ELF and binary files to the VRI format required by CAT Board's DDRLoad
Other:
Linux Device Tree (NEW! 250602)
VSRVES01 discussion thread (NEW! 250508)
VSRVES01 Cat Board discussion thread (NEW! 250523)
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https://www.vlsi.fi/en/products/vsrves01.html
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Maintainer for VSRVES01 CAT Board needed?
https://www.vlsi.fi/en/support/evaluationboards/vsrves01catboard.html
Mental support:
https://www.idealist.org/en