Tiny Core loses data too easily

[Luc]

I am a newbie with Tiny Core, discovered it yesterday and I have been playing with it since. I decided to install it on a USB stick, two partitions. At first I was very pleased, but now I have become disappointed by how unreliable it is.

1) I found out that loading programs On Boot or On Demand makes the boot take considerably longer. So I decided not to load ANY program/package at all On Boot or On Demand. Instead, I would load them in the startup script, /opt/bootlocal.sh. I added two lines to it:

sh /opt/loadpackages.sh
sh /opt/loadwifi.sh &

Of course, I created the two corresponding files. I tested them individually, they worked. Then I edited /opt/.filetool.lst so that those two files would be backed up too. That never worked. TC keeps losing those two files for some very mysterious reason. I spent about two or three hours readding them, changing ownership and permissions, reinstalling TC, everything, they kept disappearing with every reboot.

So I decided to edit filetool.lst so it would back up /opt entirely (YES, without the slash before the directory name!). TC hates that so much that not only does it make those two files disappear once again, it also won't keep anything else across reboots anymore. I know because I would change the position of the probgram bar on the desktop before every reboot, and sure enough, it would come back to the bottom after the reboot. Then I would inspect /opt and confirm that I had lost all of my recent changes. It came to the point that I would no longer change anything - just move the program bar on the desktop area. Even that is lost, I just can't trust TC to keep any of my data anymore. The only way to fix TC from that point on is to reinstall it on the pen drive.

2) Even worse, before my attempts to create that kind of On Demand/On Boot bypass, when I was still getting familiarized with the distro and still hadn't tried any kind of hackery, I had made some changes to my configuration then tested suspend to RAM. It works to the extent that the OS is indeed saved in RAM, but it won't wake up. I had to give it the infamous MS Windows Ctrl+Alt+Del salute to get the computer operational again. Of course, I lost everything I had been doing in that previous session. I have seen window managers crash in Linux, that happens. So, if I had one such problem with Tiny Core, all my work would be lost. Note that saving work has no effect in Tiny Core because Tiny Core will not really save anything until the session is shut down, and it has to be shut down cleanly, uneventful. That is an excellent ground of opportunity for disaster. No data or work is safe in such a volatile environment. I think some kind of mechanism must be put in place to avoid such strong inclination to data loss.

[tinypoodle]

What about you check the content of your backup before shutdown?

Code: [Select]

tar tvf /pathto/mydata.tgz |less

[tinypoodle]

Note that saving work has no effect in Tiny Core because Tiny Core will not really save anything until the session is shut down

Wrong. Saving work to persistent storage is achieved at any moment chosen by using provided 'backup'.

[Guy]

I have never lost data or settings with Tiny Core.

I think you are doing something wrong.


I suggest you use it the standard way before trying to make modifications.

Putting programs in On Demand does not make the boot take longer. I suggest you use this for most programs.

Putting programs in On Boot, may take a little longer. Normally less than one second per program.

If boot is taking considerably longer, you probably have things in backup that you don't need. For example, internet browser cache.


In the early days, I used backup.

Now, I have installed Tiny Core on the hard drive, using persistent home and opt, and don't use backup at all.

[tinypoodle]

Putting programs in On Boot, may take a little longer. Normally less than one second per program.

The bootcode 'showapps' could visualize that  

[Luc]

What about you check the content of your backup before shutdown?

Code: [Select]

tar tvf /pathto/mydata.tgz |less

I don't understand what that means.

Note that saving work has no effect in Tiny Core because Tiny Core will not really save anything until the session is shut down

Wrong. Saving work to persistent storage is achieved at any moment chosen by using provided 'backup'.

I respectfully disagree. Running some backup routine is nowhere near as convenient as the good ol' Ctrl+s. Nobody wants to run a backup procedure every one or two minutes. Ctrl+s, on the other hand, costs nothing, I do that every minute or even more often.

I have never lost data or settings with Tiny Core.

I think you are doing something wrong.

I was 100% sure someone was going to say that. Well tell me, genius, have you ever been raped? I haven't, so can I safely assume that rapes do not exist? They must be some sick fabrication of newspapers and police officers, right? Or maybe it's just that the universe revolves around you. You never had the problem, so it doesn't exist. Yeah, makes sense...

I HAVE lost data or settings with Tiny Core. I am therefore reporting it.

I checked filetool.lst many, many times. I checked the names of the files I created. I copied and pasted their names so there would be no chance of typos. I must have rebooted 25 times or so. Still, Tiny Core keeps losing those files. Something is broken in the system.

Then I removed all opt/* entries from filetool.lst and left just opt. There is a home entry and it works, the /root (without slash) works too, so I thought opt would work too. It doesn't. How about discussing why that option does not work either?

I suggest you use it the standard way before trying to make modifications.

Excuse me, but what exactly is this "standard way" you speak of supposed to mean? Please read these two Web pages:
http://tinycorelinux.com
http://tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html
Now tell me, is my English so bad that I completely misinterpreted the concept that Tiny Core is supposed to be changed and customized EVEN MORE than most other Linux distros? Is that NOT one of the main purposes of Tiny Core Linux? Are Tiny Core Linux prospective users advised NOT to make changes to it, not even those that are expected to be compliant with the internal works of the distro, namely the filetool.lst file? Really, I want to know.

[Rich]

Hi Luc
Let's start with what boot codes you are using. Open a terminal and type

 cat /proc/cmdline

and post the output.

Also, why are you preceding your script commands with "sh"? If you want your script file to be
executable run  "chmod 755 yourscriptsname"  without the quotes and make sure the first line
in the file is "#!/bin/sh", again no quotes.

[tinypoodle]

What about you check the content of your backup before shutdown?

Code: [Select]

tar tvf /pathto/mydata.tgz |less

I don't understand what that means.

it means you could verify the content of your backup using that command long before shutting down...

Note that saving work has no effect in Tiny Core because Tiny Core will not really save anything until the session is shut down

Wrong. Saving work to persistent storage is achieved at any moment chosen by using provided 'backup'.

I respectfully disagree. Running some backup routine is nowhere near as convenient as the good ol' Ctrl+s. Nobody wants to run a backup procedure every one or two minutes. Ctrl+s, on the other hand, costs nothing, I do that every minute or even more often.

Disagreeing on methods is one thing, but making claims against the facts is another.

You are free to use whatever method, e.g. create a key binding or use a crontab, if you do not like to backup in a way already provided.
BTW, other users with hard disk installs often go through lengths to prevent writing to disk e.g. more often than every 30' by tweaking hdparm or laptopmode tools in order to save energy.
And after all, you are free to use files on persistent storage...

I have never lost data or settings with Tiny Core.

I think you are doing something wrong.

I was 100% sure someone was going to say that. Well tell me, genius, have you ever been raped? I haven't, so can I safely assume that rapes do not exist? They must be some sick fabrication of newspapers and police officers, right? Or maybe it's just that the universe revolves around you. You never had the problem, so it doesn't exist. Yeah, makes sense...

I HAVE lost data or settings with Tiny Core. I am therefore reporting it.

IMHO that is at least a very tasteless comparison and offensive towards another user which is trying to provide support to you...

I checked filetool.lst many, many times. I checked the names of the files I created. I copied and pasted their names so there would be no chance of typos. I must have rebooted 25 times or so. Still, Tiny Core keeps losing those files. Something is broken in the system.

Then I removed all opt/* entries from filetool.lst and left just opt. There is a home entry and it works, the /root (without slash) works too, so I thought opt would work too. It doesn't. How about discussing why that option does not work either?

I'd suggest in such case you first research if the data does not get backed up or does not get restored...

I suggest you use it the standard way before trying to make modifications.

Excuse me, but what exactly is this "standard way" you speak of supposed to mean? Please read these two Web pages:
http://tinycorelinux.com
http://tinycorelinux.com/concepts.html
Now tell me, is my English so bad that I completely misinterpreted the concept that Tiny Core is supposed to be changed and customized EVEN MORE than most other Linux distros? Is that NOT one of the main purposes of Tiny Core Linux? Are Tiny Core Linux prospective users advised NOT to make changes to it, not even those that are expected to be compliant with the internal works of the distro, namely the filetool.lst file? Really, I want to know.

Reading the whole of documentation my conclusion would be that the more modifications - the less supported.
And it couldn't harm to stick with defaults to get familiarized first and being able to handle the basics.

[tinypoodle]

Just tried that:
Adding a line

Code: [Select]

<Key mask="CA" key="s">exec:filetool.sh -b</Key>in .jwmrc-keys and Ctrl+Shift+S creates a backup  under jwm  

[maro]

Code: [Select]

<Key mask="CA" key="s">exec:filetool.sh backup</Key>

Might work for TC 2.x (and early TC 3.x), but since ca. TC 3.1rc3 I guess one would need to use:

Code: [Select]

<Key mask="CA" key="s">exec:filetool.sh -b</Key>

[tinypoodle]

I stand corrected, good catch.
Post edited.

[alu]

Luc, try this:

1. put your script into /home; filetool.lst will back it up automatically;
2. shutdown your computer and select the appropriate button to do a backup;
3. restart, and your script should be in /home;
4. if you want to load your script at boot, you can put in bootlocal.sh the following lines:

cd /home
./yourscript

My way: i don't load anything at boot, but once in Xvesa, i am loading scripts from my usb-stick in order to custom everything (it takes few seconds to have a full functional and customized desktop).

[thane]

Just to double-check, Luc should also post the contents of /opt/.filetool.lst and /opt/.xfiletool.lst, in case there's a conflict or something missing.