TinyCore for all - Remastering and Flavors

[tclfan]

Following usage stats collected by BMarkus (thread http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=4718.15) and subsequent discussion in that thread it appears TinyCore is still favored for developers more than for all. This seems affecting position it is taking in Linux publicity, where it should be right on top but it is not...
In the above thread BMarkus showed clearly the importance of useful 'flavors' and easy re-mastering in order to reach to all.

Have there been advances in these since then? I have not seen but being quite busy I may have missed...

The last thing I saw was the re-mastering script published by JasonW on Dec. 17 and the last update to the script was Jan. 7. Thank you JasonW!

Again, the objective is to easily create TinyCore after including all extensions (and configuring them) necessary for typical basic use of TinyCore. BMarkus described this best in the above thread...

[sandras]

I think this might be very hard to do due to financial problems, but what about having a possibility to add extensions to TC online and download a remastered iso straight from the tinycorelinux.com? Just like Build Slax. http://www.slax.org/build.php

And I would surely vote for a Tiny Core flavor with an installer and a browser maybe. Not my favorite flavor, but it would surely attract some new users. I remember myself trying to install TC and a typo (bzimage instead of bzImage) was enough to get me all confused. Not to mention all the time I spent learning TC. Seems logical for me to have an installer since TC is trying to be user-friendly, right?

[Jason W]

For installing, there are usb installers available.  A hard drive install script could conceivably be done, but one would best not do any formatting while checking for existing menu.lst and append an entry without clobbering existing entries.  In other words, simply copy tinycore.gz and the kernel image and append an entry to menu.lst if found or create the file and run grub if needed. 

At present, we can download desired apps with appbrowser and make those selections persistent, or create a remastered iso that contains those packages and your backup if desired by running a script.  The remaster script can be rerun from a remastered iso to further add extensions or backup items.  As easy as it is to use the appbrowser, a premade iso is probably not going to go far in terms of making TC easier to use since adding extensions and their dependencies can be done with one click. 

[bmarkus]

Following usage stats collected by BMarkus (thread http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=4718.15) and subsequent discussion in that thread it appears TinyCore is still favored for developers more than for all.

It is true for sure. Not because of lack of easy remastering or flavors but due to its rapid development and changes.  Simply, in its (or her ?) actual stage TC is not for all. TC is not another UBUNTU, SUSE or MANDRIVA. Please be patient like with a teen. For sure will grow up but hopefully not on the same way as others and will be always unique, a bit strange and uncommon but something worth to love.

Why is it so imporatant to fit for all ? TC is not a commodity system.

[thane]

I personally wouldn't have any problem with TCL offering an ISO (or ISOs) with some "basic" apps, as long as it also continued to offer the equivalents of the current TC/MC.  The trouble is almost every person who suggests a "basic" set of apps seems to have a drastically different idea of what that set of apps should be. And I doubt that I would use these new ISOs, because the reason I started using TCL was its rock-bottom basic distro with (relatively) easy customization. I can create my own set of apps in a few minutes.

I'm not sure TCL should really try to be for everyone anyway. There are a lot of other distros that offer a suite of apps right out of the box, and there are plenty of people who don't mind having a lot of extra apps they never actually use.

[tclfan]

It would be an insult to TinyCore if it was equalized with Ubuntu, Suse or Mandriva!
I no longer touch that inefficient bloat. TinyCore is new, innovating modular architecture and maybe only SliTaz would come close to it. Similar is igelle but still cooking..
Fact: With TinyCore it is easy to install or 'remaster' to USB by using 'usbinstall'. Easy here is relative because if you do not answer one of questions correctly it throws you completely out and you start from beginning... After having installed and configured extensions it works like a charm though, so these minor installation wrinkles are easy to put up with if you do not do it too often...
Fact: There is a procedure including a script developed by JasonW to remaster ISO to include extensions and appears to be feasible, but perhaps not to end user... Each time you need to go to Wiki and follow the procedure to the letter to be successful...

Question:
Suppose the user installs on usb, and configures all the infrastructure extensions with preferences on it so it works fully user-configured each time... Taking from here, what would be the most straightforward process to create an CD ISO from this fully configured system on USB?
Would this be easier?

[tclfan]

By the way, this is not to say remastering procedure is difficult. This is to say it is complex enough to discourage many users.
Composing a showcase flavor of TinyCore would show an example what you can do with such modular most flexible architecture and instill encouragement of users that composing any such system is in users' hands as they wish...
Such showcase flavor would be perhaps a basic system to be useful out of the box.
I suggest:
- Xorg
- Openbox
- Firefox
- Flash
- A pdf reader
- Sound? Do we need it?

This should be still lean and fast, and satisfy 80% of needs out of the box...
Would this make sense?

[bmarkus]

This should be still lean and fast, and satisfy 80% of needs out of the box...
Would this make sense?

Not without easy wireless setup

[jur]

By the way, this is not to say remastering procedure is difficult. This is to say it is complex enough to discourage many users.
Composing a showcase flavor of TinyCore would show an example what you can do with such modular most flexible architecture and instill encouragement of users that composing any such system is in users' hands as they wish...
Such showcase flavor would be perhaps a basic system to be useful out of the box.
I suggest:
- Xorg
- Openbox
- Firefox
- Flash
- A pdf reader
- Sound? Do we need it?

This should be still lean and fast, and satisfy 80% of needs out of the box...
Would this make sense?

A showcase - what a great idea!

[MakodFilu]

I suggest:
- Xorg
- Openbox
- Firefox
- Flash
- A pdf reader
- Sound? Do we need it?

Not bad, you would like wicd in there as well. But, just for testing, take your MicroCore pendrive, backup your extensions and then empty tce/optional to just install the above apps. It would look somewhat unimpresive because Core uses snappy gzip (de)compression instead of sluggish lzma.

[curaga]

Some easy guis for installing or remastering would not be difficult. They would still be on the choice side, and would be accepted as extensions if someone wishes to create one. I think an user was creating a hard drive installer?

A server-side remaster facility would add a lot of cpu and bandwidth pressure for relatively little gain though.

IMHO, a flavor like that though would be a bit on the line, as it would force some things on its users. If picked first by a completely new user, they might see it as just another live distro. I'm not sure if we want to be very easy to use and pretty, both things come at a cost. There are other distros with those as main goals.

[Jason W]

batnas had stated that he was working on a hard drive install script in another thread.  Here are my thoughts on it, for what it is worth.  It would best not do any partitioning or formatting, those are best done by the user as one typo or bug in the script could result in a lost partition worth of data, or worse, a lost entire hard drive of data. 

Pretty much, a script would search for ext2/ext3 partitions and allow choice of which one to install to.  Then copy kernel image and microcore.gz/tinycore.gz to the /boot directory of that partition, creating the directory if necessary.  Then append to an existing menu.lst if found or create a new one.  Then a choice to run grub if desired. 

That would be a pretty safe script, especially if it was made to not even overwrite existing files. 

[tclfan]

I can create my own set of apps in a few minutes.
I'm not sure TCL should really try to be for everyone anyway. There are a lot of other distros that offer a suite of apps right out of the box, and there are plenty of people who don't mind having a lot of extra apps they never actually use.

The way it is now, yes - perhaps you can create a set of apps and configuration you want in a few minutes. Well maybe more than a few...
However, can you retain this work you did next time you boot, so you do not have to re-create all that process? This is unless you do this on USB stick and boot from one, and most older laptops may have issues with such idea... The practical solution is that after you fully configure your perfect TC configuration you click the 'Remaster' button and it writes this to CD.

Why is TinyCore not meant for everyone?
Not speaking for the intent of TC creator(s) I think TinyCore should be for everyone...
The purpose of such modular architecture is that anyone can build any system required with relative ease, whether for specialized dedicated application or general purpose desktop. No need any longer to look to other pre-cooked distros, which force you into bloat and sluggish inefficiency...
Moreover, TC runs from ram and is immune to system rot. In this category it is the best, better than SliTaz and Austrumi and Igelle, at least according to my testing...
Why not let users realize TinyCore's merits and make it easier for them to accomplish their goals with TCL, rather than hold it back in developer's niche?

[thane]

I boot from CD and save to USB stick (this box doesn't allow USB boot and has a dead hard drive). I probably will try re-mastering to CD at some point, although I like the flexibility of having the extensions on USB.

As for TC being for everybody, well, it does require some investment. Maybe I'm underestimating the average computer user, but I don't think TC will ever be the first stop for someone who (say) just wants a free replacement for Windows. I had to spend a fair amount of time learning which extensions do what, and customizing things to work on this PC. If expanding my knowledge of computers hadn't been one of my goals I'm not sure I would have bothered.

[MakodFilu]

Warning: OFF-TOPIC

I have a laptop that can't boot from USB, but my approach is booting from HD and having TCE and backup in my bootable pendrive, instead of booting from CD. That way TCEs are stored and updated in a single place, and I have a single configuration (mydata.tgz).

New documents are stored either on harddrive or pendrive depending on size and need.