Suggestion for v 3: Rename tce directory to apps

[Guy]

You are doing a great job developing Tiny Core. It is getting better all of the time. Keep up the good work.

Just an idea for version 3.

I think it would be a good idea to rename the /tce directory to /apps. Many new users won't know what tce means. Most will know what apps means.

This won't affect the functionality, just make it easier for new users to find things in the filesystem.

If Robert and the team don't agree, or think it is unnecessary, I will accept the decision.

I am just sharing my thoughts.

[trinity]

FWIW I totally agree with Guy.
Anything that can make things simpler without detracting from functionality seems to be worthwhile.
Especially as what are now found in the tce folder are tcz files!
:-)

[robc]

I would have to disagree on renaming the /tce directory. The name "tce" is unique to Tinycore, but apps is not. If Tinycore is to live peacefully within the root of another distro then it's directory needs to be unique. Renaming Tinycore's directory to "apps" could cause problems for people with an existing /apps directory.

[bmarkus]

I know what 'tce' means, it is tiny core extensions. It means the storage area for extensions. Its clear, easy to remember. But what is 'apps' ?  

Keep tce.

[Guy]

robc

There are many distros I haven't tried.

Which distros have a directory called /apps?

[robc]

robc

There are many distros I haven't tried.

Which distros have a directory called /apps?

It doesn't have to be specific to a distro, it can be a user directory, or an installation path other then the usual /usr or /usr/local.
Using a name that is unique to TC will prevent headaches in the future. It also tells the user that this directory is for TC and not for any other app/distro/whatever.

[OldAdamUser2]

Should appbrowser (or Apps, as labelled by mouse-over) be called tcebrowser (Tces)? Tcebrowser would reasonably put downloads in the tce directory.

[Guy]

Using a name that is unique to TC will prevent headaches in the future.

So if the directory was called apps, it would be unique to Tiny Core. Is that right?

[gerald_clark]

tce or tcl is clearly the main TCL directory. 
Any distro could be using 'apps'
I have a problem with the opt= boot option because Ubuntu has a /opt
directory, and now I have TCL and Ubuntu files mixed in the same directory.
Let's not make it worse.  In fact I'm for moving opt into tce.

[maro]

When I read gerald_clark's post about '/opt' I thought that this would be a good idea. So I did some "crude analysis" about the files in '/opt' and where they are used:

(1) First off let's recap what '/opt' represents in TC: AFAIK those are system-wide settings, e.g. which repository/mirror to use, which files to backup (or not), etc. This is in contrast to the other two "areas of persistence", i.e. "tce" and "home". The former being the local extension repository (and the files controlling the use of those extensions), and the latter being the user-specific settings (and what other files the user chooses to possibly keep in either a backup file or on a home partition).

(2) I wanted to find out what files are used in '/opt'. So I took a look into the initrd of a "plain" TC 2.9 system:

Code: [Select]

tc@box:~$ mkdir extr
tc@box:~$ cd extr
tc@box:~/extr$ mount /dev/hdc
tc@box:~/extr$ zcat /mnt/hdc/boot/tinycore.gz | sudo cpio -idum
30226 blocks
tc@box:~/extr$ find . -type f | while read f ; do
>     sudo strings "$f" | grep 'opt\/' | sed "s#^#${f}: #"
> done | sed -e 's#: .*\(opt\)#:\1#' -e 's#[ ;"`)|].*##' -e "s#'.*##" \
>     -e 's#:#: #' -e 's#/$##' -e s'#^\.##' -e 's#: opt#: /opt#' > /tmp/use-opt
If one wants to know which files in '/opt' are used, the answer can be found this way:

Code: [Select]

tc@box:~/extr$ sed 's#.*: ##' /tmp/use-opt | sort -u
/opt
/opt/.appbrowser
/opt/.backup_device
/opt/.filetool.lst
/opt/.tce_dir
/opt/.xfiletool.lst
/opt/backgrounds
/opt/bootlocal.sh
/opt/jwmThemes
/opt/kde
/opt/shutdown.sh
/opt/tce
/opt/tcemirror
OTOH, if one wants to know which script, executable or settings file (contained in the initrd) uses files under '/opt' the result is:

Code: [Select]

tc@box:~/extr$ sed 's#: .*##' /tmp/use-opt | sort -u
/etc/init.d/rc.shutdown
/etc/init.d/tc-config
/etc/init.d/tc-restore.sh
/etc/skel/.wmx/Tools/Add_to_Bootlocal
/etc/skel/.wmx/Tools/Add_to_Filetool
/etc/skel/.wmx/Tools/Add_to_Xfiletool
/etc/skel/.xsession
/opt/.filetool.lst
/opt/.xfiletool.lst
/usr/bin/appbrowser
/usr/bin/appsaudit
/usr/bin/exitcheck.sh
/usr/bin/exittc
/usr/bin/filetool
/usr/bin/filetool.sh
/usr/bin/netcardconf
/usr/bin/ondemand
/usr/bin/tce-audit
/usr/bin/tce-fetch.sh
/usr/bin/tce-load
/usr/bin/tce-setdrive
/usr/bin/tce-setup
/usr/bin/tce-update
/usr/bin/tcemirror
/usr/bin/wallpaper
/usr/lib/libfltk_images.so.1.1

The first list contains a few "surprises" (e.g.
    /opt/.appbrowser referenced by /usr/bin/appbrowser,
    /opt/jwmThemes  referenced by /etc/skel/.xsession, and
    /opt/kde        referenced by /usr/lib/libfltk_images.so.1.1)
but otherwise it looks like what one would expect.

(3) With all those details now a bit more "visible" I wonder:

• Does it make sense to possibly "mix" the 'opt' and the 'tce' directories (as suggested by gerald_clark)? I personally believe they have to remain separate as they represent different things.
• Is there a need to have some files hidden and others not? Why not use e.g. tce_dir instead of .tce_dir?
• If one wants to "free up" the 'opt' area to not clash with other systems what might be a better option? Well, for system-wide settings the typical place is under '/etc'. So how does '/etc/tce' sound? (BTW, if you look on a big commercial UNIX systems (e.g. Solaris) one might be surprised how much gets put under '/opt', e.g. all GNU tools/compilers, etc.)
• Do those "surprise" files listed above need a bit of attention?

In summary, I believe there might be a need for a separate "location" for system-wide settings and scripts. Whether the name 'opt' is the perfect choice is almost a question of personal taste, but a major version change (i.e. TC 3.x) would be the right time for an adjustment.

[roberts]

Long history (see http://www.shingledecker.org/NotYourFathersOS.html)  for my decision to use /opt.

When I started making distributions, the model was Knoppix.
This was a read-only compressed loop and well before unionfs/aufs.

I added a writable /opt to Damnsmall Linux. Easy to backup, much less crowded than trying to deal with extracting some of /etc. Besides even on a traditional system, you don't want to be hacking around /etc. /opt seemed better suited. /opt has served it purpose well. I don't see a compelling reason to change.

[maro]

Fair enough, Robert.

When starting to write my post I thought of moving files from /opt to somewhere else to be a good idea. Towards the end of writing it I wasn't convinced anymore, but thought to put the "crude analysis" out into the public space anyway.

How about the mix of hidden and non-hidden files? Is there some form of logic behind this, or could they all be non-hidden?

Do you plan to remove the JWM reference from the .xsession file, since JWM isn't the default WM anymore?

[Pats]

My 2 cents here:
In windoz, all system files are kept under System and System32 dire. and all applications ( whether OS provided or third-party ) are nicely bundled in Program Files.
So I think, if /tce is to be renamed to /apps or something then - it will be much better to provide an option to user at the tie of fresh installation of TC to choose his own dir. name for /tce.
( all my 3rd party windoz apps are kept under Apps dire and there may be some others also).

Otherwise - the present dire. stru is just fine for TC - if Gerald C. does not mind - off-cource !
Another thing, improvement is one thing and altering the base structure is another one !
Frequent changes in base-str may pose many problems for TC in future releases !
Just an honest thought - nothing against anuone !

~ Pats