should tcl's default mode change: how useful is cloud mode?

[jur]

With the question of how to make tcl persistent popping up from time to time, and I am guessing the majority of users using persistence (my assumption) I wonder if tcl's default mode should perhaps be tce/mount (or tce/install)? How useful is it that a user has to download everything everytime? Stuff like your email and browser favorites, to mention just a few, need to be there for next time. Not to mention any customizations.

So to make tcl more accessible to the neophytes perhaps persistence could be the default mode? (Of course when working from a cd a multi-session is necessary and perhaps not applicable right now.) I am guessing most people expect their stuff to be there the next time they fire it up. tcl is so easy and quick to install to a usb stick or the hard drive, it is just begging for it.

[Pats]

Although, I like the way TCL is presently working vai RAM w/o the need of HDD etc, but still I fully agree with the idea of session persistance - the way Knoppix has done !

It may be possible to include at least some basic utilities - like bash, PPPSetup, Dial-up scripts ( for Cable as well as Mobile/wireless connection), a small text browser ( pine) - if not mozilla/firefox, and atleast a command line music player. It wont hurt if some another 3/4 MBs are incresed in this distro - my personal opinion , off-course !

Cause - average basic newbee find it difficult to install/configure everthing from scratch and that too everytime  !

I know this may be against TCLs philosophy - but increasing interest for TCL amongst youth - should be addressed too !

TCL Team is the best judge !

~ Pats

[bmarkus]

Dial-up scripts ( for Cable as well as Mobile/wireless connection)

Do you need a dial-up script for Cable? Usually they are just working without any magic.

small text browser ( pine)

Pine is not a text browser but a mail client. Both pine and text browsers are in the repo.

EDIT: Talking about pine in the repo I mean alpine

[^thehatsrule^]

FYI, the usbinstall script does set up tce= automatically.  To not have this "default" mode means that configuring will need to be done.  If you are talking about the install guide, it remains minimal so the user can choose what to do.

[jur]

That's true, didn't remember this... Perhaps this nugget could find its way to the core concepts page.

I followed the way of using unetbootin from Windows because my netbook does not have a cd drive, plus it's much more convenient to use a usb stick at the start instead of using a cd every time you want to try a distro. The default mode there was of course cloud mode and it took a lot of puzzling to make the connection. As a noob I didn't have the first clue about boot codes.

[Pats]

Sorry for the two typos !:(

Do you need a dial-up script for Cable?

Pl read it : Dial-up scripts ( for /Dongles/ as well as Mobile/wireless connection)

Pine is not a text browser but a mail client.

Pl read it : a small text browser ( /Lynx/ ) - if not mozilla/firefox
By the way - Is it installed by default ?

Both pine and text browsers are in the repo.

Correct, but I mean all these basic utils (mentioned in my post should be installed by default on the CD-iso itself like fdisk , if possible!

What abt those people - who cannot start dnloading the repo apps right-away due to unconfigured ppp thru AppBrowser ?

Just a suggestion !

~Pats

[thane]

I can't speak to your situations, but what brought me to TCL was its minimal core and extreme customization options. I've seen a number of suggestions for a "basic" set of apps that "everybody" uses, and (besides a web browser) I don't use any of them. Even with the browser it's good to have a choice. I invested the time it took to figure out persistency and arrive at a set of apps that meets my needs.

There are a number of other Linux distros that install with various sets of applications built in. That's the approach they chose to take and more power to them. The great thing about Linux is that if one distro doesn't have the features you want there's another distro that does. But by the same token I think that means each distro is entitled to its own approach.

[combo3]

Although I personally haven't burned a cd in ages, I can see some merit in providing an iso which includes a tce/optional directory with as many user apps, browsers, wireless tools, gtk libraries, and related dependencies as space on one cd permits. Development tools, web servers, etc, can be left off for later download.

That way laptop users have most of what they might need to start out with at their disposal.

[Pats]

I can't speak to your situations, but what brought me to TCL was its minimal core and extreme customization options

Agreed ! I only expected some possible installations of most basic and common utils only. 

There are a number of other Linux distros that install with various sets of applications built in.

But those are not as fast and minimal as TCL. So I suggested a little additions of Vitamins ( read - Utils ).

I can see some merit in providing an iso which includes a tce/optional directory with as many user apps, browsers, wireless tools, gtk libraries, and related dependencies

Exactly , Combo3 ! You got it correctly !

Development tools, web servers, etc, can be left off for later download.

Most of the basic users does not need those either !
Let us see - what TCL Team thinks abt these suggestions - we dafinately love TCL.
~ Pats

[gerald_clark]

If this were done, there should be a separate boot menu option, and the tce directory should be something like
tce.cd so it will not collide with a users tce installed elsewhere.

[curaga]

I see it like thane does. There is no "basic" set, and the goal is complete customizability. One man's basic app is anothers bloat.

On topic: How to guess where to save? What if the user doesn't want the hd touched?

Of course it would be kinda fun to automatically format all found NTFS partitions to ext2, but I doubt the users would like that

[jur]

Personally I wasn't thinking of a basic set of apps, I also like the idea of a completely bare bones starting point. This is THE main reason I came to tcl. I HATE bloat.

I was thinking of the troubles I had to get persistence going. I was thinking of puppylinux's approach where they very helpfully guide you to choose a place where to save your stuff. I was thinking of how to make tcl more accessible to everybody, not only the linux initiates. It's all very well that experts like you can make your pc jump through hoops but that helps nothing to the uninitiated. It is good to be able to make things work without asking to many questions, but at the moment many questions is the status quo.

I want to see tcl be a top 10 distro. I am thinking of how to take tcl to the next level. Or am I mistaken that there is going to be a next level?

[thane]

Well, as far as being an expert or a Linux initiate you must mean curaga; that certainly isn't me! 

I too found persistence obscure when I started and wouldn't have minded a specific guide to attaining it (even though it might just have been something like "when you're booting and you see that pfkey message, push PF2 or PF3 and type in "tinycore waitusb=5 tce=sda1").

In Puppy Linux you're saving personal settings and content that were created during the session. The actual applications are included in the CD or installation. IIRC, it asks you the first time you shutdown where you want to save your session info.

I guess for TC to have an equivalent function, it would have ask during booting if/where the user wants to save downloaded applications? Presumably this would be done only if no tce directory was specified by bootcode and none was found by the autoscan, and if "base" wasn't specified? And the user could skip creating a tce directory if he/she wanted to -- i.e. boot to cloud mode?

Hmm...

[gerald_clark]

Unfortunately, we have no idea what drive or partition to suggest for the tce directory.
It is better to make no suggestion, than an incorrect one.

[Guy]

I suggest, without changing the existing, in addition to the existing, have a Tiny Core CD with the commonly used programs, as well as the easiest programs for installation on a hard drive (GParted), and extensions needed for USB installation.

People may use the CD to try Tiny Core.

Some people may run Tiny Core from the CD for some time.

This would also make installation easier for newbies.

Note: This would still not save personal settings.


Those who understand could continue using the existing method. Newbies could use this CD.

I know there are other options. I believe GParted is easiest for people with little knowledge of Linux.