flwm window resize bug (again)

[thane]

I guess I should report this here since flwm is now the default windows manager.

I hit the problem again with an flwm resize button being wiped out. It occurred when I did a vertical resize to half screen of a fullsize window. The window title was too long to fit in the title bar space available on the resized window. Oddly enough the horizontal resize button was not overlayed, but the vertical resize button disappeared.

edit: If the title is too large for the title bar space whichever resize button you click gets wiped out.

More an annoyance than anything else. Most websites don't seem to have titles long enough to cause this problem.

[MikeLockmoore]

I and roberts (and probably many others) are aware of this behavior.  Since the flwm puts the title bar on the left side of a window, there is often no space for all four window-management buttons and a useful window title.  So if the window may only need to be, say, six text lines high, the title bar is going to be really short.  Flwm starts enforcing a kind of trade-off when the window's vertical height is limited, and trades visibility of a few of the buttons for a bit more title area.

The horribly short left-side titles for small windows and the general irritation I have trying to read sideways is prompting me to make a variation of flwm with a more traditional topside titlebar location.  I know some people consider the left-side location to be the primary unique feature of flwm and appreciate the vertical space it opens up on wide-screen monitors and netbooks, but I think there could be better ways to preserve vertical space and still have top-side titles.  (Move and/or modify wbar, for one.)

I don't know how long it will take me to develop a version of flwm with topside titlebars, but I think it will address your issue.

[bigpcman]

The horribly short left-side titles for small windows and the general irritation I have trying to read sideways is prompting me to make a variation of flwm with a more traditional topside titlebar location.  I know some people consider the left-side location to be the primary unique feature of flwm and appreciate the vertical space it opens up on wide-screen monitors and netbooks, but I think there could be better ways to preserve vertical space and still have top-side titles.  (Move and/or modify wbar, for one.)

I don't know how long it will take me to develop a version of flwm with topside titlebars, but I think it will address your issue.

The topside titlebar is an excellent idea! I would greatly appreciate such a solution.

[tclfan]

I do not mean to beat a dead horse, as flwm was again selected as default and I need to put up with this choice or specify another wm...
However, I just want to mention that I was getting the entire real estate of the screen for applications when using JWM. E.g. when I maximized Firefox window, it occupied the entire screen, overlaying the top JWM panel. This means I was getting more screen for the app than with flwm, which would invalidate the argument for advantage of flwm... I did not pay attention if it bahaved the same way for all apps...

[roberts]

Dead horse, heh? You DO NOT need to specify another window manger!
I am absolutely sure that you have downloaded other applications to run with Tiny Core.
It is trivial to downoad jwm or jwm-snapshot into tce location. That's it. That is all that is needed, nothing to specify.

In case my reasons for the change were missed you should really read:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=2821.msg14536#msg14536

FWIW, I view the screen covering the taskbar as a bug in JWM. Very annoying to constantly be moving windows to get to the taskbar and/or access to the menu. IMO JWM is best run with taskbar at the bottom (emulates Windows 9x)  as not everything works very well when at the top.

But size alone is reason enough. I hope you read the message link above. And by looking at the requirements of jwm-snapshot even more so.

I use ash instead of bash. I busybox instead of coreutils/gnu.
It is your choice if you wish to use larger shell, utilities, applications, window managers, or desktop environments, and GUI toolkits (Hal and his buddy DBUS). Your choice.

[tclfan]

Dead horse, heh? You DO NOT need to specify another window manger!

FWIW, I view the screen covering the taskbar as a bug in JWM. Very annoying to constantly be moving windows to get to the taskbar and/or access to the menu. IMO JWM is best run with taskbar at the bottom (emulates Windows 9x)  as not everything works very well when at the top.

Thank you. I did not expect an elaborate reply... It was not my intent so I apologize for taking your precious time. As I said, I put up even with such stern wm as flwm for the sake of maximizing efficiency, especially that I can use another wm if I want. I am not favoring JWM either, which I understand is not optimal. My only concern was that flwm looks too crude at first sight, but I see the reasons for flwm default and I accept it. I trust you are making the right decision, as always in this project...

[thane]

Well, personally I was using flwm as a tce option in earlier versions of TCL 2.x and prefer it to JWM, so I have no problem with it being the default windows manager. But if I see what looks like a bug I'd rather speak out than keep silent.

[florian]

But size alone is reason enough. I hope you read the message link above. And by looking at the requirements of jwm-snapshot even more so.

To my understanding, all the extra features (and dependencies) in jwm are controlled at compile time and thus optional.

[roberts]

And so the drama continues...

I have compiled and patched jwm.tce as small as I could, yet still it is approx 3x the size.

Forever moving windows to get to tasks, desktops, and menu is more an annoyance to me.

With jwm as an extension more features (eye candy) can be included,e.g., jwm-snapshot.

So unless, you use Tiny Core sans any extesions, I don't see your point.

[lucky13]

FWIW, I view the screen covering the taskbar as a bug in JWM. Very annoying to constantly be moving windows to get to the taskbar and/or access to the menu. IMO JWM is best run with taskbar at the bottom (emulates Windows 9x)  as not everything works very well when at the top.

But size alone is reason enough. I hope you read the message link above. And by looking at the requirements of jwm-snapshot even more so.

It's not a "bug" but is related to a setting in .jwmrc-tray. The default for the tray in jwmrc is 8 but TC has the tray factored out and layer set at 3, which means anything with a layer set >3 will go above the tray. I was tired of stuff covering up my tray so I reset it to a higher number -- 12 is absolute but even 8 should suffice unless you set specific apps to a higher number. I didn't know who set that up but figured it was so someone could get more space on a screen. I don't use title bars for most apps so I don't need anything greater than the layer for the tray.

Once that setting is appropriately set to a higher number, it doesn't matter if you set the tray on top, bottom, or either side. It should work quite well under any circumstance.

As far as jwm goes, we don't have to use the snapshot or even use jwm configured for all options whether it's in the base or not; I'll most likely use my own (older) version of jwm without any of the image libs or stick with ratpoison or ion. No matter how it's configured and compiled, jwm is still bigger than is needed for TC's base. I also don't care for the direction it's going, but such is life in open source: add new system requirements and call them "features." What's it doing now that it didn't do before? Any way to change the menu without restarting it? Or does it have a feature beyond the tray list of open windows? Or is it all a bunch of window dressing that's only aesthetic and not functional?

The base of TC should only be what's essential to get a bare minimal desktop, and for that flwm is more than adequate -- it has a menu, it provides window decorations to make managing things simple, and so on.

Not flashy enough? Fine, use something else. That's what the repository is for anyway. The whole concept of TC isn't to have everything dressed to kill (or at least someone's peculiar interpretation of that; beauty is in the eye of the beholder) but to provide the bare essentials from which a user can build and customize to suit his or her own needs.

[roberts]

We have gone through several iterations of "layers" with jwm. The default setup would have some applications, mtpaint comes to mind, that would open behind the taskbar. Therefore no obvious way to access that application's window controls Must know how to alt-drag.. With the taskbat at top, the use of popups showed off screen instead of displaying below the taskbar. Alt-tab does not include windows that are minimized.

I have given my reasons for the change and have gone out of my way to make it easy for the user to select jwm, jwm-snapshot, fluxbox, hackedbox, icewm, ... without the need to specify anything. Only a simple download away.

I will no longer update the jwm.tce. If others that have such an interest in this window manager then step forward and make any adjustments you wish and submit via the standard protocol.

[jpeters]

We have gone through several iterations of "layers" with jwm. The default setup would have some applications, mtpaint comes to mind, that would open behind the taskbar. Therefore no obvious way to access that application's window controls Must know how to alt-drag.. With the taskbat at top, the use of popups showed off screen instead of displaying below the taskbar. Alt-tab does not include windows that are minimized.

 using jwm-tray's autohide works for me. When I need the tray, simply moving the mouse to
the top of the screen gets it. 


[removed due to policy]apps/mtpaint-desk.png

[roberts]

I am inclined to just drop the, IMHO, nearly useless, title text.
This not only solves the resize text bug, it also eliminates the complaint that "it hurts my head to turn sideways to read the title".
It also makes for a smaller flwm. And you all know how to just to love to make things smaller.

[jpeters]

I am inclined to just drop the, IMHO, nearly useless, title text.
This not only solves the resize text bug, it also eliminates the complaint that "it hurts my head to turn sideways to read the title".
It also makes for a smaller flwm. And you all know how to just to love to make things smaller.

I'm using JWM, but sometimes it contains  useful information  ( eg, resolution and scale with a screenshot, as with link above).    

[roberts]

But, if as was noted, the window is resized to where the text is severly truncated then it is not going to be useful. And as noted so many times already, if a larger window manger is desired it is simple to do.