Off-Topic > Off-Topic - Tiny Tux's Corner
a rant/discussion about grub bootloaders - MBR and EFI
PDP-8:
I'd just say don't lose track of the original target market:
Those coming from Windows, or even a fully fledged Linux desktop who might be attracted to wrenching around with the grub.cfg, kernel options, classic *nix configurations etc, but are stymied by using 3rd party usb etchers, or even DD'ing from Ubuntu, and finding the latest 64-bit tc64 iso unbootable and walking away.
Ie, partitioning and formatting the usb stick properly for uefi / uefi-only is a bridge too far, even if they are willing to read Into-The-Core. It's that first hump they can't get over.
It was the same situation back in the 80's too with Xenix, Microport, PC/ix, Coherent etc etc where trying to dual-boot an existing dos partition was such a pain that they gave up and went straight back to MS-DOS. They *could* have been the next Unix wizard, but that first hurdle was just too much of a trip-up and left a bad impression.
I think the project is a great idea, just be sure it's simply not a mere technical exercise if there really isn't any audience for it.
jazzbiker:
Hi, PDP-8!
--- Quote from: PDP-8 on June 28, 2020, 06:20:06 AM --- or even DD'ing from Ubuntu, and finding the latest 64-bit tc64 iso unbootable and walking away.
--- End quote ---
Hmm, I must say, that current TinyCorePure64.iso includes grub2 EFI boot partition, isolinux boot set for BIOS boxes, full set of the time-prooved Tiny desktop programs and the boot menu, allowing to choose GUI/CLI. So if someone's box is unable to load such media, it means that it is secure-boot-positive, and we have no medicine to cure this disease.
@nick65go - You can look at TinyCorePure64.iso, grub2 EFI size is 4M with font and graphics stuff.
nick65go:
@jazzbiker: Thanks, but I have already look into every tc*.iso beginning from year 2009. All my grub1/grub2/extlinux versions to boot from real/virtual from dvd/hdd/usb etc are less than 500 KB ;)
I do not care about fonts and graphics stuff for a tool (grub) which purpose is to be flexible and to teleport me (passing through kernel, xorg) straight into my application (browser, media player etc).
Optimizing a boot-loader for my needs, makes it not so useful for lager audience. Plus I am not committed to maintenance (before my retirement). My contribution was about low-fruits (ideas) how to not add bloated stuff if it is seldom used.
ex: kernel has the modules for partition types, grub just need to load the kernel.
How many USERS use xfs/ext4/etc with TinyCore, and why? if just fast-light read a SDD/USB and RAM is (relative) cheap?How much RAM do you think a UEFI laptop has today/yesterday? My 5 years old laptop (400 GBP) has 8 GB RAM. Today 16GB RAM is default for a (600-800 euros) laptop with 4-8 years life. I could run all from memory, not touching a 500GB-1TB HDD...
PS: do you think that a stranger will ever convince me (without torture, blackmail) to run his USB in my laptop? maybe i will give it a try in a virtual machine.
@PDP-8: you are right. first step is difficult. then someone can "fly" alone with any linux flavor. he just need to not crash/die at the beginning.
xor:
one step after; monopolization effort of big companies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#Criticism
--- Quote from: nick65go on June 28, 2020, 09:04:10 AM ---@jazzbiker: Thanks, but I have already look into every tc*.iso beginning from year 2009. All my grub1/grub2/extlinux versions to boot from real/virtual from dvd/hdd/usb etc are less than 500 KB ;)
I do not care about fonts and graphics stuff for a tool (grub) which purpose is to be flexible and to teleport me (passing through kernel, xorg) straight into my application (browser, media player etc).
Optimizing a boot-loader for my needs, makes it not so useful for lager audience. Plus I am not committed to maintenance (before my retirement). My contribution was about low-fruits (ideas) how to not add bloated stuff if it is seldom used.
ex: kernel has the modules for partition types, grub just need to load the kernel.
How many USERS use xfs/ext4/etc with TinyCore, and why? if just fast-light read a SDD/USB and RAM is (relative) cheap?How much RAM do you think a UEFI laptop has today/yesterday? My 5 years old laptop (400 GBP) has 8 GB RAM. Today 16GB RAM is default for a (600-800 euros) laptop with 4-8 years life. I could run all from memory, not touching a 500GB-1TB HDD...
PS: do you think that a stranger will ever convince me (without torture, blackmail) to run his USB in my laptop? maybe i will give it a try in a virtual machine.
@PDP-8: you are right. first step is difficult. then someone can "fly" alone with any linux flavor. he just need to not crash/die at the beginning.
--- End quote ---
jazzbiker:
@nick65go
Sorry, I didn't have any intentions to disturb You with the suspicions, that You do not know the sizes of grub2 stuff files. Be sure, I will never mention this sizes again.
Let me express one thought, i hope it will not abuse anybody. The times You, guys, are remembering, the wonders and wizards existed on the OS level. But those times are gone away, and, probably will not return as the literal replica. Nowadays, the wonders and the wizards lives not on the application, but even on the network level. Correct me, please, if I am wrong as usual. And what TinyCore can propose as a killer-feature which no other OS can provide, performed on this level, to burn the eyes of potential future wizard? Long ago OS was the bleeding edge, now it is infrastructure. So what can be done, using TinyCore, which nobody can do, in our years of 8G minimum RAM, USB3 and 5G? Hope, You know the answer.
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