FirefoxFlashHelper.tcz feedback...

[nitram]

My old systems are only able to utiize Flash 10, runs well but slow due to dated hardware. Flash 11 does not work at all. Please correct if wrong, but i believe Flash 11 requires an SSE2 processor. Regardless, i prefer to install libflashplayer.so manually and have a simple way. Just create a plugins folder in .mozilla/firefox profile and either place libflashplayer.so into the folder or create a sym link to keep mydata.tgz small for backups.

Due to aging hardware, i also prefer to keep as much as possible OnDemand vs OnBoot. Obviously my Firefox needs to be loaded and Flash 10 requires the following dependencies to function correctly:
- alsa-config.tcz (tried without but Flash gave numerous errors)
- nss.tcz
- curl.tcz
- gtk2.tcz (already Firefox loaded)

I plan to create an extension called FirefoxFlashHelper.tcz that will bundle these Flash dependencies so i can load them all together OnDemand if/when i need Flash during a session. The extension will also place the info file into /usr/local/share/doc that will provide user instructions on how to identify hardware (SSE vs SSE2 processor), provide the Adobe Flash archive download link and instructions on how to extract and manually install libflashplayer.so into Firefox.

Questions:

- Most TC users are savvy but it still takes effort to figure out how to manually install Flash and identify minimal dependencies. Would the TC community benefit from a submissible extension? Otherwise i will just create for my own needs. Obviously i could have already completed this project as a personal extension before finishing this post! I hoped Flash would die quick but it lingers.

I'm aware of getFlash11 and don't want to step on any toes, but it only loads Flash 11, which old processors can't utilize. There was a getFlash10 extension in TC3 or 4, tried it but it didn't work (probably either different TC system or outdated download links in script). This proposed extension would provide the user with full control over the Flash version installed (10 or 11), the installation method (into .mozilla or sym linked) as well as load all required dependencies. Should not be any licensing concerns, as this extension would require the user to download Flash himself direct from Adobe.

- Can anyone confirm whether Flash 11 still only needs the minimum dependencies listed above?

- Any other suggestions or am i just wasting time?

Thanks - nitram.

[coreplayer2]

Have you tried the current getFlash11 extension?

I realize that v11 is downloaded but I'd try it first.
Also chromium I believe has an older flash version builtin

You could modify the created extension with your older flash lib which creates all the required extra symlinks for other browsers.

You might even find an old flash10 extension around somewhere.

Using an outdated flash in Firefox is not the best option because ff will spit out many errors 

[nitram]

Thanks for the responses coreplayer2.

Flash 11 does not work on my old processors, tried many times over the last year or so on various Linux OS. Flash 10 no problems. As outlined, pretty sure it's an SSE2 issue but can't confirm. Unfortunately Adobe doesn't transparently provide these specific hardware requirements, not that i could find anyway. Similar issue with PaleMoon browser last year. After they dropped SSE processor support (SSE2 only), PaleMoon never ran on my system again, did not even load

Diehard Firefox so Chromium is not an option.

Similar to above, i do not require an extension that supports other browsers - just Firefox.

As mentioned, already tried getFlash10 from TC3 or 4 with no joy (different TC system or broken download links). Plus i prefer a manual install, don't require a script, want to minimize sym linked files in /usr/local/, etc.

On my old systems, using old Flash 10 is the only option and when set up correctly does not throw errors - runs fine. YouTube doesn't even complain about outdated Flash, everything just works. Wish HTML5 video worked better on old hardware, but it's even more resource hungry than Flash and not all sites support HTML5.

FWIW: Flash 10 is now running great on my TC 6.2 system, 800 MHz, 512 MB RAM, provided it's only 240-360.

In response to my previous queries:

- Looks like maybe you don't think the proposed extension is worthwhile. Seems everyone but me probably has adequate hardware to run Flash 11 or enough processing power to go with HTML5.

- If you know, please clarify whether Flash 11 requires the same minimum dependencies listed above to run. Not to process the getFlash11 script/install, just to run Flash 11 in Firefox.

I'll probably drop this idea and just create a personal extension to load Flash dependencies OnDemand. Additional input is, however, welcome. Will sit on it for a week or so and see if there are additional responses and insights. Lack of response probably means minimal demand or not required. My initial post in this thread is probably enough of a 'how to' for most new TC users to manually get Flash working in Firefox anyway.

Thanks again.

[coreplayer2]

I wasn't suggesting to use the older getFlash extension, instead create an extension using the latest getFlash11 then use the newly created Flash11.tcz as a template as it has the latest audio support module and required symlinks even for firefox, remove only the symlinks for browsers you will not need support for.

Examining the construction of a similar extension can provide great insight to how your extension should be constructed.


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[nitram]

Understand what you're saying by learning from the getFlash11 scripts. My proposed extension would, however, not require any script, just a manual Flash install 'howto' combined with a convenient way to load the necessary Flash dependencies.

Took a look at the getFlash11 scripts. This is too complicated for my needs and probably exceeds my current scripting abilities. I thought OSS was deprecated (guess not) and avoid pulse when possible. This does reveal that my proposed extension would probably be too simplistic/narrow to benefit most users, who have more diverse sound and browser setups.

Time permitting, as a learning experience i may attempt to modify your scripts to produce a getFlash10.tcz or InstallAnyVersionFlash.tcz equivalent, although this really isn't what i was after and still prefer the simplicity of a manual install.

From getFlash11.sh, Flash 11 dependencies appear the same:

Code: [Select]

echo "gtk2.tcz
curl.tcz
nss.tcz" > $INSTALLDIR/"flash"$VER".tcz.dep"

In the end this thread will probably just serve as a simplistic 'Firefox Flash howto'. Or maybe my proposed extension should be named ManualFirefoxFlash10or11InstallHowToAlsaOnly.tcz, but that would just be silly 

Thanks for the feedback and insight.

[coreplayer2]

Understand what you're saying by learning from the getFlash11 scripts.

Actually was suggesting looking at the Flash11.tcz created by the getFlash script, then use that as a template for your personal extension (modified to suite your specific needs)




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[nitram]

When time permits i may temporarily remove my Flash 10 install, backup system, reboot and take a look at what getFlash creates. It will be a good learning experience and it will probably confirm, once again, that Flash 11 does not work on my old hardware.

As a personal extension only, my idea is so simple that a Flash11.tcz should not be required for dissection. My personal extension would just create an empty file into /tc or /tmp called FlashDepsLoaded, as i really just want the .tcz.dep file to install all Flash dependencies en masse OnDemand (alsa-config, nss,...).

...i should just place these 3 .dep extensions into OnBoot already and save a lot of labour :-)

Information gleaned from getFlash scripts and the process could be used to expand my manual Flash install 'howto'. Maybe a ManualFlash.tcz type idea, but i am not yet familiar with any idiosyncrasies of 64-bit systems, various sound systems and other browsers. So in the end i would just be creating a complicated manual Flash 'howto', which getFlash already automates!

....and if i choose not to expand this 'howto' for other browsers and sound systems, then i'm back to just FirefoxFlashHelperAlsaOnly, which is too narrow focused for submission.

I'll just complete a personal extension. This helped me think things through. Sorry for the touble. Thanks again.

[Misalf]

My personal extension would just create an empty file into /tc or /tmp called FlashDepsLoaded, as i really just want the .tcz.dep file to install all Flash dependencies en masse OnDemand (alsa-config, nss,...).

You might want to create yourself a meta extension. Take a look at  Xorg-7.7.tcz .
It's basically empty, it only contains a  /usr  folder. Nonetheless, its deps get loaded.
You could just copy and rename it, and create a .dep file with the same name containing all the extensions you want to get loaded. Then add this new meta extension to ondemand.

[nitram]

Thanks for the feedback Misalf.

Can't believe i'm essentially creating a meta-extension for myself 

Coming from Debian with a strong preference for minimal installs, window managers, modularity and no meta-packages, this has been enlightening. Now i see why metapackages get created. Clicked on desktop to open Apps, realized i'm not in TC at the moment, will check out the Xorg extension later.

[nitram]

Personal extension completed. Only took a couple minutes and tests great. Won't bother submitting anything.

Unsquashed Xorg-7.7.tcz just to confirm that it was, in fact, empty - it was 

If someone wants to create a meta-extension themselves just to load specific dependencies en masse, probably easiest way:

- Utilize meta-extension as a template (eg. Xorg-7.7.tcz and Xorg-7.7.tcz.dep)
- Change filenames as desired (eg. flashdepends.tcz and flashdepends.tcz.dep)
- Modify .tcz.dep file with desired dependencies, example:
     alsa-config.tcz
     curl.tcz
     gtk2.tcz
     nss.tcz
- Ensure all desired dependencies are installed in /optional
- Add newly created meta-extension to OnBoot or OnDemand
- Enjoy

Thanks again all for the feedback.


Aside: Some of what prompted this was that my system sometimes got tripped up when loading OnDemand items manually and sequentially. For example, if alsa-config.tcz was not fully loaded from OnDemand before attempting to load curl.tcz OnDemand, the system would ramp up to 100% processor usage and stay there, RAM would get swallowed up, eventually using up the swap partition. Top output revealed multiple same processes and i was unable to kill them faster than they were multiplying. The only way i found to stop this was to reboot, abruptly and unexpectantly ending my session.

With this meta-extension system, it seems the system is better able to process OnDemand items sequentially without getting tripped up. Just curious, has anyone else experienced this?

[Misalf]

if alsa-config.tcz was not fully loaded from OnDemand before attempting to load curl.tcz OnDemand, the system would ramp up to 100% processor usage and stay there,

Sounds like an infinite loop. tce-load checks if deps are already loaded by checking /usr/local/tce.installed/ , if not present, the dep gets added to its quire. Then, if another process of tce-load does the same with another tcz wich has one same dep, its quire (second process) won't get refreshed and it loops where it tries to load something already loaded? I'd guess the same thing happens if you have two extensions which depend on each other.

I have experienced this with zandronum -> doom & doom -> zandronum.
'Fixing' this would probably slow down tce-load. Just don't do it. (;

[coreplayer2]

I can't remember if the getFlash extension was created to overcome the constant updates? or resolve Adobe licensing issues..?

if licensing is not an issue, then I'm sure there are folks who would greatly appreciate having a Flash10 extension in the repo. 

[nitram]

Misalf wrote:
I have experienced this with zandronum -> doom & doom -> zandronum.
'Fixing' this would probably slow down tce-load. Just don't do it. (;

Don't worry, i wouldn't know how to fix 
Personally i think a fix would be great, even if it slows loading. Something that results in system instability or an unplanned reboot is worthy of investigation. I have never had this happen when using tce-load -i via CLI, as it's impossible to load another item until the user gets a prompt back. It only occurs when selecting items sequentially from the GUI OnDemand menu. I wouldn't know, but it seems like the items aren't cueing properly so the system gets tripped up if the previously selected item has not fully loaded before selecting the next item, and since there is no 'finished loading' message the user is left guessing.

coreplayer2 wrote:
I can't remember if the getFlash extension was created to overcome the constant updates? or resolve Adobe licensing issues..?

I believe Flash 11 for Linux now just receives security updates, but i didn't check the script to see how getFlash11 handles this. Flash 10 no longer receives any updates, so once it's installed then all done. I suspect no licensing issues with getFlash as the script is user initiated, so the user is requesting Flash (with script assistance) and the files are retrieved direct from Adobe...TinyCore isn't hosting Flash directly in their repositories.

...I'm sure there are folks who would greatly appreciate having a Flash10 extension in the repo.

getFlash10 hasn't been in any TC repositories since TC 3 or 4, so there does not appear to be any demand. I don't recall seeing any requests for it since i started on this forum a few months ago and thus far no interest expressed in this thread.

[Misalf]

Don't worry, i wouldn't know how to fix 

I meant just dont't do simultaneous loading of extensions.

and since there is no 'finished loading' message the user is left guessing.

Hmm, true. If my wild guess that tce-load can inf.-loop is correct, then it could happen quite often.

TinyCore isn't hosting Flash directly in their repositories.

I think the question is if it could?

there does not appear to be any demand.

Often people don't express their demands.

[nitram]

Misalf wrote:
Hmm, true. If my wild guess that tce-load can inf.-loop is correct, then it could happen quite often.

Often enough to create this meta-extension to prevent it from happening. Unfortunately the issue does not appear related to any specific extension. Infinite loop appears to be accurate terminology. I try not to load OnDemand items simultaneously and wait until conky CPU output drops to <5%, but things still get tripped up on occasion. Wouldn't be as big a deal if there was a way to kill/break the loop, but i haven't discovered how.

I think the question is if it could?

Maybe i'm wrong but wouldn't think so, since Flash is proprietary and this would affect their download/user stats.

Often people don't express their demands.

Since TC 3 or 4? Not sure how many users would wait that long to make a request or get Flash running. As time passes, Flash 10 becomes even more irrelevant as most everyone has adequate hardware for Flash 11, except me