General TC > Programming & Scripting - Unofficial
Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
coreplayer2:
I forgot to include a screenshot, getting the latest Firefox...
nitram:
Both arguments have merit.
// Isn't this the default action of APPS?
Apps defaults to 'OnBoot' but patiently waits for user to press 'Go', providing option to toggle Onboot/OnDemand before install. User also has option via CLI, tce-load -wi vs tce-load -wo.
// I'm thinking that anyone wanting to download or update a commonly used application would want the browser available each time they boot.. am I wrong in that assumption..??
It's also the heaviest application many users have in /optional, so i could see how some would prefer an OnDemand option. Personally, firefox.tcz resides in OnDemand as i want quick boots to compile/test extensions, often use a lighter browser, don't use Firefox every session.
// It's an easy fix but my fear is it would confuse many folks
Maybe clarify. Don't understand how an OnBoot/OnDemand option would be confusing. That's how TC works, user has full control over the install process. In situations like Lee and myself, user wouldn't need to clean up onboot.lst after install.
Just providing feedback, it's your script so you can write how you want :)
coreplayer2:
Thank you nitram for your interesting view on this subject, here is my view
I'm convinced that majority of new tc users are not entirely familiar with onboot or ondemand usage and simply expect a downloaded application to be installed and loaded on every boot. similarly most new users are confused when recent changes to their system are not replicated on each and every reboot, clearly this is evident when they haven't grasped the application of persistence.
In my experience and I'm referring back when I was new to TC, I wanted every app downloaded to be installed on every boot up. If there wasn't a need for an application on every bootup I simply wouldn't download it, or would remove it. But I'm wiser now and at least know I can choose to download to my local extension store or have it available each reboot or ondemand.
Experienced users like yourself will undoubtedly know the benefits of onboot or ondemand and would setup their boot lists accordingly to taste or system ability.
For example I setup my ondemand and onboot items based on frequently used applications; my main GoTo applications in onboot and less frequently used applications in ondemand; like this
--- Code: ---onboot
firefox.tcz
ondemand
firefox-getLatest.tcz
--- End code ---
--- Quote ---Apps defaults to 'OnBoot' but patiently waits for user to press 'Go', providing option to toggle Onboot/OnDemand before install
--- End quote ---
or other choices which are unclear to the new user. when presented with choices they don't yet fully understand new users will always accept the default as being the best choice based on experienced users who developed the menu. It's hard to see a toggle choice as an argument in opposition of onboot, when onboot is still the preferred default.
--- Quote ---Maybe clarify. Don't understand how an OnBoot/OnDemand option would be confusing
--- Quote --- It's an easy fix but my fear is it would confuse many folks
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
I remember when new to TC and being confused, if I had downloaded an app to the tcz store and it did not load on the next or successive reboots was my reference.. In those scenarios I came to use "Apps > Load app locally" way too frequently..
--- Quote ---User also has option via CLI, tce-load -wi vs tce-load -wo.
--- End quote ---
How many new tc users are even aware an tce-load cli option exists...?? experienced users have the choice to change / load anyway they want to.
I could be wrong but I think anyone connected to the internet will want a browser on every boot as their GoTo app (eg firefox not only browses the web but has builtin support to read text files, image files and pdf files and likely more that I haven't discovered yet..). If anyone has gone to the effort of installing one regardless of which brand, it's most likely their most important app for everything they do on a day to day basis. so why not have it available on every boot?
You might say that installing via Apps you have the choice?? well I would argue only experienced users know that choice exists, for everybody else (ie the vast majority) the default is onboot.
As an updater to an existing installation; firefox-getLatest could easily be configured to load onboot if an onboot entry existed (actually wouldn't need to do much since the solution already exists).
As an initial installer; firefox-getLatest could easily be configured to download then load on a one-time basis, leaving it to the user to figure out they have to add firefox to the onboot list to have it appear on a reboot. (maybe that view is biased but shows exactly what I'm trying to avoid..??)
New users simply want things to work without delving into the mechanics of the system, while experienced users can choose to change the way their system operates as they wish, as usual.
I'm a believer of the "What's right, not who's right concept" so what's the right thing to do here to respect new users and experienced users alike..?
perhaps a Poll??
yiyus:
I have proposed a similar solution before, but I messed up with the formatting so you may have missed it.
You could grep for firefox-getLatest in onboot and ondemand and add the generated extension only to the lists in which getLatest is found. Then, new users will get firefox by default just pressing Ok and it will not get too much in the way of more advanced users.
I can send you a patch if you want.
For an installer extension I am working on (for plan9port), what I am doing is to try to load the generated extension when the installer is loaded and generate it if not present, so that the user just have to install the installer however he wants and it will work as expected.
nitram:
// Thank you nitram for your interesting view...
Get that a lot :)
//I'm convinced that majority of new tc users are not entirely familiar with onboot or ondemand usage and simply expect a downloaded application to be installed and loaded on every boot.
If you're convinced then good enough, just keep as is.
My view is different:
- New users will not likely use your script and will simply install firefox-ESR via Apps
- By the time they use your script, the user will understand the difference between OnBoot and OnDemand
- You're only a new user once for a brief period of time, the script will be used regularly (Firefox release cycle) and they might appreciate the option
//...most new users are confused when recent changes to their system are not replicated on each and every reboot, clearly this is evident when they haven't grasped the application of persistence.
OnBoot, OnDemand and persistence are clearly documented (eg wiki, Core book).
It's not your fault if users don't read documentation.
The script could be adjusted to read something like:
Which version? enter_version_#
Install (1) OnBoot or (2) OnDemand, inexpereienced users please enter 1 (OnBoot): enter_1_or_2
//How many new tc users are even aware an tce-load cli option exists...??
As above, it's clearly documented.
Apps browser 'OnBoot' is clearly a choicebox dropdown.
// I'm a believer of the "What's right, not who's right concept" so what's the right thing to do here to respect new users and experienced users alike..?
Give users a choice, everyone will benefit.
If the OnBoot 'default' is clearly described and OnDemand is an option, why not?
// perhaps a Poll??
- Might not be fair, new users won't likely vote
- Can't see why experienced users wouldn't appreciate the option
- Don't believe this forum supports polls
Stimulating chat. As before, it's your script so however you think is best is the way to go. I appreciate it takes a lot of work to make even minor changes to a script in regards to coding, testing and distributing. Maybe just a non-committed 'to do' review for later?
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