It's about time to fix the ISO to USB booting issue, it's holding TC back.

[linuxguy2014]

I have about 20 years of experience with linux and am starting to become somewhat disappointed by the Tinycore methodology for USB booting, not only in regards to the actual functionality but, more so in the responses being given to people trying to make this work.  Typically most people experienced in Linux will use Unetbootin to put an ISO onto a USB to boot from.  Not unusual, not unique, not special, and very standard.  Download just about any Linux distro, (modify nothing), run Unetbootin, put USB stick into another machine and done.

This is not the case with Tinycore for some odd reason, for even odder reasons it being 2014 and this still being a problem since older versions of Tinycore.

It's about time this gets resolved for many reasons more than I can type here (or have time for).

So since most of you especially the ones who respond, like to make assumptions that someone didn't do this/that. (meanwhile ignoring the fact that this is not even working in a standard way such as Unetbootin and also ignoring that on the wiki that's listed as a 2nd option to accomplish this).  Oh and don't forget that you also ignore the fact that the wiki also mentions on option number 3 to use "multicore-current.iso" which is very funny becuase the latest "mulitcore-current.iso" is not located in the current release, nor easily accessible since the fact of the matter is that the latest "mulitcore.iso" is actually (and only) available in the 3.x releases.  So why isn't this mentioned in the wiki?  Why isn't the wiki allowed to be updated to reflect this by the rest of the community?  Wouldn't you like to stop seeing repetitive questions about accomplishing this task?  Is it that unusual for people to want to use the ISO like other linux distros?


This is the wiki page -> http://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/wiki:install_without_a_cd_or_dvd_drive <- a the bottom it clearly states when it was last updated ->  wiki/install_without_a_cd_or_dvd_drive.txt · Last modified: 2011/08/13 00:07 by Guy

This is another wiki page -> http://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/wiki:install_usb <- with information that also doesn't work, again same problem docuementation states something that doesn't exist.  Right away you learn this from the "Download multicore" (3rd paragraph down)... Really download from where?  Go ahead click through the mirrors because the documentation being outdated conveniently leaves out the fact that it's 3.8.4 (not to mention we're on 5.4 now supposedly so how do I get something that doesn't exist for the current version?).  Further down the list at the bottom like some sort of joke to leave you laughing as you walk away it says -> "install.gz can be loaded from any directory by opening the Control Panel, then clicking Load Starter Pack".  Really?  Have you guys looked at the control panel lately?  Guess what that's not an option (surprise, surprise).

None of the methods work and the multicore-current.iso (or multicore.iso doesn't exist for Core 5.4, the latest it exists for is "multicore_3.8.4.iso" located here -> ftp://ftp.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/tinycore/3.x/release/.  None of the methods work on the wiki and possibly because the information there has not been updated since at least 2011.

Yes I also read the FAQ -> http://tinycorelinux.net/faq.html#pendrives <- before that is also raised.  Yes I read specifically the part about unetbootin not being supported (that's fine don't) but, interestingly the only reason (documented on that same page) is because of the "cde" directory not being called "tce".  Yes I changed the directory name (super simple) to "tce" as instructed (and of course it didn't work).  So I also went into the boot up config for syslinux and even isolinux (yep both are there you can see this for yourself plain as day), and changed all the "cde" to "tce".  Guess what?  Still didn't boot off the usb.  So since I had 7 others to try I also tried that with them, none worked.  I typically use "sed" to go through and hunt but, I decided to do it manually and with "sed", nothing different still get the black screen with cursor blinking.  So what gives (or isn't giving)?

So is it a lie that multicore should exist as documented per the wiki?  If not where did multicore go?  If not how do I get a multicore?  If not how do I make Tinycore USB bootable? (through normal methods not involving a bunch of hacking around so users who aren't as technical as me can do this).

I understand and know how to mount the iso, extract the files, partition the USB the way I want and do it that way.  When I instruct my friends (who are new to Linux) to use Unetbootin it fails for them, in fact it doesn't matter the USB key (we tried 8 different types).  However regardless of which popular Linux distro we used all 8 sticks booted using the Unetbootin.

So what are my options? (that actually work, aren't outdated and dont seem like a blatant lie to get rid of me asking).

One thing very obvious especially to an IT guy like myself is that this seems to be an extremely common problem, and of course the common response is "read the wiki/manual".  However that response is not only completely wrong, it stinks of not wanting to deal with the real issue:

USB booting with Tinycore is a problem and for some reason the author does not want to address it.

I've gone through the forums and for everyone's convenience I was going to copy/paste all the threads with instructions that DON'T WORK (have yet to find ANY that work with current version).  Unfortunately there are over 100 of these (hello author(s) is it not obvious this is a problem?).  However here's some for fun reading and notice the replies to the OP even after he asked as nicely as he could to get actual answers and not vague ones or experienced only type of answers.  Yet he still has not been able to complete a supposedly "simple" task. -> http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,16623.60.html <-, this behavior is not even in the spirit of Linux.  Let alone opensource.  There's a ton of links (search the forum, they're very easily found and literally all start and end the same way) and literally all of them end up with the OP giving up on trying to get USB installation of the original(or remastered) ISO working.

So what's the secret?  Yes I know you don't "support" unetbootin, again fine.  However you have a statement (on the FAQ) that says "Therefore in the case of unetbootin renaming cde to tce is required."  This obviously does not work.

So for my friends who are new to linux my only option is to tell them to use "core2usb" a windows tool?  Does that make any sense?  What if they don't have windows and can't figure this out(as the situation I'm in with them)?

How after convincing them to dump windows do I tell them that to use this awesome tiny distro that they have to use windows to get it onto usb but, no other (at least that I'm aware of) Linux distro has such a weird problem?

Answers? (legitimate, actual working answer, not the answers I've seen ya'll give everyone that essentially tries to put the blame on them, which any intelligent person would realize that there is a problem and it can't be all of them trying to do the same thing.)

Edit: In my frustrations I forgot to mention that the "ezremaster.iso" is what's not booting for me, even after simply booting and going directly to the "ezremaster" tool.  Yes I add the option "waitusb=5".  So for whatever magical reason it's not booting even when being created directly and immediately without doing any customization (except for adding "waitusb=5").  Accomplished using dd if=ezremaster.iso of=/dev/sdX (in case you're wondering).

[bmarkus]

So for my friends who are new to linux my only option is to tell them to use "core2usb" a windows tool?  Does that make any sense?  What if they don't have windows and can't figure this out(as the situation I'm in with them)?

No one is forced to use core2usb or any other Windows tools, it is optional. If you dont like Windows or you don't have Windows that's fine. There are many others who has no 20 years of Linux experience like you have. For them creating the USB stick on Windows is an easy and fast way to get it working and start Linux.

BTW, your criticism is not related to TC. Better to post at general Linux forums.

[linuxguy2014]

In my frustrations I forgot to mention that the "ezremaster.iso" is what's not booting for me, even after simply booting and going directly to the "ezremaster" tool.  Yes I add the option "waitusb=5".  So for whatever magical reason it's not booting even when being created directly and immediately without doing any customization (except for adding "waitusb=5").  Accomplished using dd if=ezremaster.iso of=/dev/sdX (in case you're wondering).

[curaga]

Unetbootin is a third-party installer, and you simply won't get persistence using it for any distro. Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSuse, and so on also require their own installers to get a fully functional installation, unless unetbootin has specifically coded support for them. So please do not advise anybody to use unetbootin, for any distro.

If you don't have Windows, you should use the native installer of each distro. TC's installer in the TC case.

WRT the wiki being out of date - the wiki is user contributed. We appreciate the effort if you'd like to help, as a forum member you have write access to the wiki (use the same username and password).

[curaga]

You're also quite unclear in what happens. If you get a black screen with a blinking cursor, that is likely the bootloader failing before the linux kernel has even booted. That can then be the result of many things including bad bios, bad bios settings, bug in the bootloader, and so on.

[linuxguy2014]

I've tried this on 5 different machines, I seriously doubt all 5 choose to not boot the "ezremaster.iso" over the "coreplus-5.4.iso" based upon a bug.  If that's the case I should just rename the "ezremaster.iso" (although we all know the bios has no idea what the filename is when I transfer the ISO using dd).  I'm not looking to get persistence.  Specifically I'm looking to create a lightweight distro I can send to my friends without them having to become IT pros.

I noticed that when I do a "dd" of the CorePlus-5.4.iso that I get a partition on the USB drive.  Yes I know this partition is an ISO9660 type but, it shows up and I can see it and I can boot from the USB drive as expected (menus, etc).  However if I create an "ezremaster.iso" IMMEDIATELY after booting into TC from Virtualbox/VMware/DirectlyOnMachine and ONLY adding the bootcode "waitusb=5", not only does the USB NOT boot.  In summary you can test this yourself in under 8 minutes (computer speed dependent of course).

1st test to make sure you're not crazy:
1) Download the coreplus-5.4.iso
2) sudo dd if=coreplus-5.4.iso of=/dev/sdc (in my case)
3) Boot from the USB (didnt matter the computer, laptop, or netbook or USB drive of which I have 8 to play with)  this works
4) Now look at the USB and notice the partitioning... you have a /dev/sdc1 and it's an ISO9660 (all as expected)

Now try this:
1) Boot up TC using latest CorePlus.
2)  make sure you have the coreplus-5.4.iso available and mounted in vbox or whatever you're using
3) Start up ezremaster
4) add "waitusb=5" to bootcodes
5) In EZRemaster, select an app or two and load outside initrd (or whatever it didnt work no matter what way I tried) specifically I tried something easy like filezilla because it also adds the other deps for the gui.  (I even tried this without selecting any apps, still the same end result, again regardless of initrd specification, etc.)
6) I use filezilla to transfer the newly created .iso out to my host box
7) sudo dd if=ezremaster.iso of=/dev/sdc (sdc in my case)
USB is ignored by all computers, laptops, netbooks (that previously and without hesitation booted the coreplus-5.4.iso).
9) Now look at the USB and notice the partitioning... you have a /dev/sdc1 and it's an ISO9660 (all as expected), in fact a comparison by many file/directory comparing apps shows the only differences being when I add the apps).

So how is this possible when using the exact same medium, under the exact same bootup and not changing anything?

[gerald_clark]

The CorePlus ISO is a hybrid ISO.
If you create your own ISO and want to dd it to a USB thumb drive, you need to run isohybrid on it first.

[curaga]

Perhaps you have found a bug in ezremaster, which would then go under TCE bugs. I don't know if ezremaster is supposed to create a hybrid iso though.

[linuxguy2014]

Perhaps you have found a bug in ezremaster, which would then go under TCE bugs. I don't know if ezremaster is supposed to create a hybrid iso though.

I hope not, but all signs are pointing in that direction.  Especially if you follow the extremely simple steps to recreate the situation.

[gerald_clark]

Did you run isohybrid?

[linuxguy2014]

The CorePlus ISO is a hybrid ISO.
If you create your own ISO and want to dd it to a USB thumb drive, you need to run isohybrid on it first.

Since I'm using the CorePlus-5.4.iso as a source in the ezremaster wouldn't that imply I'm making an ISO already with those abilities?  Nowhere in the documentation does it state an exception to this so it would be logical to think that what is created is the same as the source.

Anyways, once I did that I was able to boot off of my remastered ISO image.  Specifically I did this on my gentoo box I did not do it in the TC I had booted up.

For anyone reading this you will need to install syslinux on whatever Linux distro you're using.  Then at the command prompt:

isohybrid ezremaster.iso (or whatever you named the ISO image)

Then you can proceed as usual:
sudo dd bs=1M if=ezremaster.iso of=/dev/sdX (replace X with your USB device)

If anyone has any questions I will stick around and answer.  Also since I've been informed that I can update the wiki I will place the info there to assist anyone else with this.

Thanks all

[linuxguy2014]

I was going to edit the current pages in the wiki that refer to this.  However I was thinking of just making a new page or wiping out the contents.  Really just trying to get the confusion on this down to non-confusion and I think the multiple pages that talk about this that haven't been updated are muddying the water.

Let me know I don't want to be a cowboy.  Thanks

[gerald_clark]

I would just add a comment or note to existing wiki articles. or maybe a link to an updated article for newer versions.
Just because an article for Core 3.X refers to multicore instead of CorePlus, that does not make it wrong.  We still have people running Core3.
It would be better to add "[ renamed CorePlus ] since version 4 ]" instead.
There is a lot of old information in the wiki, but it is still useful, especially if annotated.
The original V1 method of manually installing TinyCore using the grub extension and the vi editor is still valid, and in some cases is still the easiest method of installing Core.

Therefore, I would not suggest any new member delete wiki articles.  Until you become very familiar with TinyCore and how it works, a lot of information in the Wiki that  "seems" wrong, but may actually be correct.

[bmarkus]

Lets see the reality, how difficoult is to install TC on USB stick.

First downloaded TC 5.4 ISO on WINDOWS machine and installed with Unetbootin. Stick booted to standard GUI without any manual modification of the stick. So far it is good, in few minutes from Windows to TC up and running.

Next copied the TC 6.0 alpha1 ISO to the USB stick on LINUX with a dd command. Just a single line command. And see, this stick booted to 6.0 GUI.

Sticks created above are booting and running fine on several machines.

To get persistence after that you can rename CDE to tce, create another Linux partition and move tce there, etc. But both TC 5.4 and 6.0 installation either on WINDOWS and LINUX took just few minutes and without any manual tweeking resulted a correctly booting and working TC system.

[grandma]

WAY BACK WHEN (TC ver 3.5) - I was faced with picking a linux distro and reviewed 200 - narrowed it down to two dozen I tested - and narrowed that to five I would use for at least 3 months - then finished with TC as the winner. I have 40 years of software development spanning nearly every mainframe, PC and network ever made, brag now and then I have written more software than any 10 programmers you'll ever meet - combined - as confirmed by headhunters - though I haven't introduced them to the team at TC since that would throw ice on my claim...but...

I like fast, reliable, robust, plenty of aps and a cheery forum and found friends and an atmosphere here I did not find at other forums - save Puppy - nice group - but TC had some distinct advantages not the least was

GETTING IT TO BOOT FROM USB FASTER, EASIER AND MORE RELIABLY THAN THE OTHERS. The knoppix live CD was pretty good and that founder a good chap - and Puppy is a can-do distro - but TC, once tinkered with a few times so you KNOW THE SEQUENCE - worked every time with less steps and better/faster results.

I used netbootin, used syslinux, used grub4dos at a Windows/DOS prompt and all worked well enough.

I think the trick to getting good results here is to become familiar with the various boot loaders and automated/wrapper tools - like netbootin - and the Oracle driven livecd utility - which also worked with TC.

Thereafter, knowing how to get syslinux to work at a command line proved reliable, though I found syslinux less reliable than grub4dos when it came time to actually booting...so...once you have a bootable USB using whatever method/path you choose, I suggest you immediately use grub4dos within TC and make another and another - and thereafter your boot ups should be fine...but sometimes grub4dos trips a bit in windows/dos whereas peter who runs syslinux did a good job on the MBR stage for syslinux so its a good way to get your first TC working.

Am I going to teach you to use netbootin, syslinux or grub4dos...no. Should a utility or script/zip exist for windows users here at the TC forum so any idiot can click - download - copy - boot with minimal effort - yes especially since windows users are increasingly held hostage by that empire and TC is a great key to their freedom...

HOWEVER it also requires someone at TC to focus on just the quickie / easy windows installer method(S)  since windows changes the landscape almost daily, MacAfee is a royal pain/blocker that commonly blows out installers and has to be turned off - another wrestling match - and I have found the trouble isn't with a script or exe to do the install, but the arm wrestling involved in shutting down all the windows utilities intent on ensuring you CAN'T make a bootable linux usb...and once you create a utility that can be sure microsoft will figure a way to block it or make it painful for users to turn off the security features...that has been the biggest challenge for my "dumb" clients - not the TC install or using syslinux/grub etc. wrapped in an exe or script/bat file.

So....for windows users who want to create a bootable usb flash drive my suggestions are:

1. Get syslinux and lay down a boot record on a usb flash drive formatted with Fat 32 - with syslinux looking for a file in a folder structure of E:\tce\boot\vmlinuz or whatever your version has...

2. Get the TC iso version you want

3. Bust open the iso with a tool designed to do so - and create the folder structure  on a usb  - mine is a \tce\optional (extensions) and \tce\boot (with 2 files in there - the bzImageand tinycore.gz (ancient versions of TC I happen to love)

4. Once syslinux is properly configured to go there it will - then the last step is to ensure your bios/boot priority puts usb flash drives/usb hard drives/removable drives first....many bios versions do not support this because vendors are partnered with windows and a lot of Dell's and other machines don't include that option - sad...but....

Once you have done these steps you will - not maybe - get a TC to boot easier than all the netbootin tinkering and other options (plop etc.) I explored when figuring out how to get various linux distros to work from usb....

In my own painful research I found that TC was the most reliable and that studying/learning syslinux was the most fruitful place to focus my energy and thereafter - once booted into TC - getting grub4dos to work and figuring out how to configure menu.lst - meant easy street thereafter.

Am I a systems expert like the other guys here? No - I write financial software and can do systems work but its painful for me. But I do teach tech classes and know the tears students can have when they can't get it to work so I try to steer them to a reliable, easy set of steps and explain where to focus their energy and in this case its learning syslinux while in the world of windows/dos and then grub4usb thereafter. Its not hard and any  half-idiot can write a syslinux.cfg file from a template they find online to handle this and the syslinux command line to create a bootable usb flash drive is barely 10-20 characters as is the dos format line to create a fat 32 usb flash drive...these are easy steps...and I have some 80 year old clients who have done it without too much help..

So you don't think I'm remiss I will put a few commands here...

1. creating a fat32 usb is easy

type

format E: /FS:FAT32 where E: is the drive your USB is at...do not type C: or life gets ugly fast

2. edit the syslinux.cfg file to point to the folder where the vmlinuz or bzImage file will exist


Peter made this easier recently so its just

syslinux.com --install e:

but I used to type things like (didn't always work)


syslinux.exe --mbr --active --directory /boot/syslinux/ --install e:

and

syslinux.exe --stupid --force --mbr --active --directory /boot/syslinux/ --install e:

etc. - you may have to play with the options

And you need a syslinux.cfg

DEFAULT TCE
LABEL TCE
  SAY Now booting the TCE kernel from SYSLINUX...
  KERNEL bzImage
  APPEND ro root=/dev/sda1 initrd=initrd.img

and finally got familiar with vesamenu.c32 and got this to work

..but you also needed vesamenu.c32 - not bad...


======================== (ignore this line)

default vesamenu.32
prompt 0
allowoptions 0
menu width 78
menu margin 4
menu rows 14
menu width 78
menu margin 4
menu rows 14
menu background friends.jpg

menu title TCELINUX BOOT MENU

#menu notabmsg Press [Tab] to edit options

menu color border 0 #ffffffff #ee000000 std
menu color title 0 #ffffffff #ee000000 std
menu color sel 0 #ffffffff #85000000 std
menu color unsel 0 #ffffffff #ee000000 std
menu color pwdheader 0 #ff000000 #99ffffff rev
menu color pwdborder 0 #ff000000 #99ffffff rev
menu color pwdentry 0 #ff000000 #99ffffff rev
menu color hotkey 0 #ff00ff00 #ee000000 std
menu color hotsel 0 #ffffffff #85000000 std

#####menu color option  forground #ALPHA/R/G/B  background #ALPHA/R/G/B
#####Black_menu color sel 0 #ffffffff #ff000000
#####Green_menu color sel 0 #ff00ff00 #ff000000
#####Red_menu color sel 0 #ffff0000 #ff000000

timeout 5
#
label TCEUSB
menu label ^1) Boot TCE from USB
menu indent 1
kernel /tce/boot/bzImage
append initrd=/tce/boot/tinycore.gz quiet norestore bkg=splash.jpg waitusb=10 xvesa=1024x768x32
TEXT HELP
NOTE: SYSLINUX boot loader doesn't always work. If this does not boot
try rerunning the setup utility and use GRUB4DOS instead
GRUB GRLDR and is usually a more reliable boot loader
ENDTEXT
#

============================ ignore this line

I'm sure TCE gurus will find fault with some bit of code there
but with a little torquing it'll do the job.

And it probably WILL NOT work the first time - software rarely
does - or every time - but getting to know syslinux and grub4dos
are the biggest challanges here - not the other steps.


3. BREAKING A TC ISO involves a utility (windows) that can read it and create a virtual hard drive like I: at which point you copy those contents to a folder structure on your C: drive such as

Type

C:
cd\
mkdir C:\mytcestuff
cd C:\mytcestuff
mkdir tce
cd C:\tce
mkdir C:\tce\optional
mkdir C:\tce\boot

Remember to get to a dos command prompt with admin requires ctrl+shift+enter

Then type
xcopy I:\tce\* c:\mytcestuff\tce\* /e

which will take whatever your iso has and put it in the tce folder structure
You may have to juggle a few folders with more copy commands to get
optional extensions where you want them...this has changed a little here
and there with various tce releases.


Once this is done - files copied - and syslinux POINTS to the folder
where vmlinuz or bzImage exist and the bios is set to boot from
USB then its just a matter of testing and editing the
syslinux.cfg file


YES - it can be scripted - i.e. in a bat or cmd file or exe
so it almost ALWAYS works. I have written several of those
and compiled them and sent them to clients BUT

WINDOWS sees exe and throws a fit...and teaching users to
turn off MacAfee and all the other windows garbage is harder
than teaching them to work at a command line as admin

....so its almost always better to just let them learn
the command line parameters anyway and learn to create
syslinux.cfg and menu.lst (grub4dos) files since they can
do nearly anything after learning that.

As usual I was probably long winded, made errors and am
not current with the latest TC release...so throw your
barbs if you will, but grandma says...get out of windows
anyway you can...and of the 200 - 20 - down to 5 distros
I looked at - along with the speed, reliability, number of aps,
forums, support and pretty kewl people  et al...

TC has been absolutely the best of the bunch....

p.s. for those unaware several popular linux distros
are now known to be "infected" as in NSA OWNS YOU
and TC ain't one of them...heads up.