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Author Topic: Doubts and sugestions  (Read 3220 times)

Offline factor-h

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Doubts and sugestions
« on: April 16, 2009, 03:38:08 PM »
Hello,
I'm an old DOS hacker, not very confortable with the huge amount of Linux services.
So I'm now just a user unable to get things done, just able to give the user point of view on the building of a system. So this is a long fall down. But I'll try to be usefull anyway.

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QUESTION:

When the term Extension was read, I believed a dream come true. Not sure now.
What I had understood was BLOCKS of choosen applications.

Like a Lego system allowing to each user to build a common variant with other users.
A bit like a multiplication of distros thru various possible combinations.
Where all dependencies were met.

So that over the base one could build for small-office, medium office or big-office.
Or any other theme under this prespective of USER_NEED and AVAILABLE_POWER.

A One system does it all? Yes and no. More in the notion of modularity where these BLOCKS would follow some THEMES accordingly with the user and it's PC so to get several possible combinations... so it would be more apropriated to call it a versatile modular distro.

I wonder if it is still possible to get these BLOCKS build, at system and application levels.
It would be a wonderfull thing to get that at system level, so to avoid a huge kernel... or a huge library system just because of a not really needed application.

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TESTIMONY:
Naturally I miss the old DOS days were things were we could grasp it all and hack the system quickly.
But the organization in a PERSONAL computer was much diferent from a CORPORATE one.
So I allways get confused with all applications in one place like a not very clean old DOS system.

But maybe I'm getting it wrong when I point the cause to using a CORPORATE philosophy of just a small set of applications with the completly different environment of a PERSONAL one with the inevitable "huge collection" of applications.

---

Hoping it may be of any use.
Chears.
DuLac.

Offline jls

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Re: Doubts and sugestions
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2009, 04:49:37 AM »
do u know kolibrios a non linux os written in assembly wich fits in a floppy. Incredible!
dCore user

Offline factor-h

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Re: Doubts and sugestions
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2009, 02:06:50 PM »
do u know kolibrios a non linux os written in assembly wich fits in a floppy. Incredible!

Yes, very interesting system, though last time I've tried it didn't work on my Cyrix/200.

But I have not lost the hope to see a Modular System with an API between levels (from Kernel to user) so several solutions could be inter-changed.

Anyway this progect seem to be the best place to become to understand the inner workings of Linux. Just wished Linux didn't dropped the PERSONAL systems way to keep things organized for keeping an unreal CORPORATE way of keeping things.

There's only two ways to deal with the inevitable complexity...
 1 - The old K.I.S.S. rule.
 2 - Planned Modularity.
And these are NOT adverse to each other.

Cheers,
DuLac.

PTW: YES to holy (whole) plants... NO to chemicals. <G>

Offline jpeters

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Re: Doubts and sugestions
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2009, 02:44:19 PM »
Please check-out the wiki for remastering, which couldn't be much simpler.  OTOH, clicking on what you need in the appsbrowser loads dependencies for you automatically installed in your local tce folder for reboots.    That's not simple enough?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 02:47:15 PM by jpeters »

Offline fos

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Re: Doubts and sugestions
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2009, 07:29:14 PM »
I know what you mean, Dulac.

I sometimes miss the early days of dos. Applications did SEEM to run faster and easier. The old shareware system was the forerunner of open source that we have today.

A command line linux system is pretty much what the old dos system tried to emulate.

You could try logging out of TC and dropping into the command line. As an alternative, you could try Debian in the command line mode. They have just about any text based command line piece of software you could ever want.

Jeff

Offline tobiaus

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Re: Doubts and sugestions
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 05:08:54 AM »
what makes linux so much different from dos is not design as much as it is philosophy, and that philosophy changes the design in a fundamental and unpredictable way that may take many years for the user of another system to appreciate. i've used ms-dos / win3.1 / caldera dos / win9x / winxp / giant bloated distros / mini linux distros for years. i started on tomsrtbt, which is floppy based, but didn't learn anything about linux that way. better to have dosbox and a linux term running side by side in a gui based distro, if you're getting familiar with linux, especially the prompt.

tc is much more simple than other gui based distros, the range of things you can do is incredibly wide for a distro of its size, and other distros that focus on doing everything with the gui add layers and layers of abstraction to simple tasks, even if it's all tucked under a reasonable and easy to use gui control. so the experience is one that while comfortable, is much more difficult to learn to automate (or appreciate). with tc not only is it easier to get under the hood, the parts under the hood are not as crowded. but then a few tasks are not half as intuitive to the end user.

for the kernel size, you have to think about what the dos kernel does vs the linux kernel. the dos kernel just gives you base memory access (there are 32 bit versions) and almost no support of hardware, which is interfaced with by drivers. in linux, much of this support is included with the kernel, and other modules can be added at runtime. the range of devices that linux can use is much wider than the range of devices that work in dos.

ultimately linux is about making everything an option. for a system where a million options are developed organically with little in the way of top-down organization or means of making them interoperable, it is surprisingly coherent, if less than dos. it's sort of like the difference between creationism and evolution- rarely, you end up with a tailbone or appendix that doesn't seem to do anything because it no longer does or more often, because it serves no purpose in your environment, but it's designed for a larger array of environments- it is amphibious. but for any system you can build with dos, it's probably easier (if you are already familiar) to build the same with linux, and far more things a linux system can easily be designed to do.

as for modularity, open source development for dos is so rare (the freedos project helps, but there's unproportionally, almost inexplicably more in the way of open source development for windows and linux) and there aren't so many reusable parts. as a dos user, i expected every application to either be be built statically or with dynamic components included in the same folder. in linux this is uneconomical, people use libraries and toolkits that become de facto standards so the installation procedure becomes a much different and more complicated one. tc has been great at streamlining that otherwise complicated process, the main issue with that right now is how quickly the collection of packages is evolving- the gtk2 upgrade has shaken things up, but they were impressively stable.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 05:13:44 AM by tobiaus »