Tiny Core Linux

Tiny Core Base => TCB Q&A Forum => Topic started by: stanner on June 08, 2011, 05:18:31 PM

Title: appbrowser problem
Post by: stanner on June 08, 2011, 05:18:31 PM
I am having a problem getting appbrowser to connect to the mirror site.

I am using 3.6 that was downloaded last Thursday.  (I need to set up a kiosk machine running a browser for a time clock.)

I have the network working and can resolve URL's.

I have TC talking to the internet and can use wget to download extensions manually from http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/3.x/tcz/

Having read a thread discussing apbrowser connection issues (http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=7898.0), I have edited /opt/tcemirror and tried to enter the path from the wget command which did not work.  

I have shortened the entry to http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/ (reference the comment about getMirror() using the contents if /usr/share/doc/tc/release.txt).  

I have even edited /usr/share/doc/tc/release.txt so that it is blank and edited /opt/tcemirror to read http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/3.x/tcz/ without success.

What should the correct entry be for both files?
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: maro on June 08, 2011, 06:09:27 PM
I'd suggest not to screw up the determination of the proper repository by changing 'usr/share/doc/tc/release.txt' (unless you really know what you are doing).

Furthermore leave '/opt/tcemirror' initially on it's default value of http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/ (or http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/tinycorelinux/ for versions prior to v3.6).

To troubleshoot your issue I'd suggest to use 'tce-load' in a shell (e.g. tce-load -wil mirrors) as this might provide you with some warning messages that could help to identify your problem (and then report back to us here).
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: stanner on June 09, 2011, 11:39:44 AM
Here's a transcript of your requested test:

Downloading: mirrors.tcz
wget: can't open 'mirrors.tcz.md5.txt': Read-only file system
Connecting to distro.ibiblio.org (152.19.134.43:80)
wget: can't open 'mirrors.tcz': Read-only file system
md5sum: mirrors.tcz.md5.txt: No such file or directory
Error on mirrors.tcz

Note: I have booted from a cdrom and I had to include firmware.tcz on the cdrom following the wiki "Remastering TC" and "Integrating extensions into an ISO" pages.

Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: Guy on June 09, 2011, 11:57:06 AM
Quote
Downloading: mirrors.tcz
wget: can't open 'mirrors.tcz.md5.txt': Read-only file system
Connecting to distro.ibiblio.org (152.19.134.43:80)
wget: can't open 'mirrors.tcz': Read-only file system
md5sum: mirrors.tcz.md5.txt: No such file or directory
Error on mirrors.tcz

Note: I have booted from a cdrom and I had to include firmware.tcz on the cdrom following the wiki "Remastering TC" and "Integrating extensions into an ISO" pages.

If you have a tce directory on the cd, it is read only, so you cannot add more apps.

To overcome this, have an ext4 partition on the hard drive, create the /tce/optional directory there, and put apps there. You can now write to the hard drive, so you can install more apps.
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: maro on June 09, 2011, 05:35:46 PM
Or if you just want a kind of "live CD" setup or for a one-off test you could change back to the "cloud mode" with
    echo /tmp/tce > /opt/.tce_dir
This overwrites the determination done during the boot process to assign the 'tce' directory to the read-only CD-ROM (which puzzles me a bit anyway as I would have thought that the scripts that control this matter should be "smart" enough to prevent this situation to occur). Clearly this is not a permanent solution as the one suggested in reply #3, since in the "cloud mode" all downloaded extensions will be lost when one reboots.

An alternative to including the entire 'firmware.tcz' extensions via a 'tce/optional' directory on the CD-ROM would be to integrate just the files one needs from the extension into the initrd (i.e. 'tinycore.gz') by following this Wiki page (http://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/wiki:remastering).
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: roberts on June 09, 2011, 06:15:24 PM
Users should never be instructed to create their live tce directory on a read-only device.
Users should never be instructed to be editing systems files to recover from such.
Talk about confusing users! Oh my!
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: maro on June 09, 2011, 06:48:08 PM
Users should never be instructed to create their live tce directory on a read-only device.
Users should never be instructed to be editing systems files to recover from such.
Talk about confusing users! Oh my!

Hmmm, I'm not quite sure what to make out of this. Are those of us who (at least consider themselves to be knowledgeable enough) provide troubleshooting support and suggestions? I don't know what went "wrong" to end up with the scenario as described in the OP (and reply #2), but I think I've indicated surprise. Nevertheless I was not aware that the files in '/opt' (whether hidden or not) are "sacred cows" never to be mentioned and not to "disturb the magic" that happens "under the covers" during the boot process.
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: roberts on June 10, 2011, 11:20:58 AM
Not only confusing to the OP but also subverts any efforts to support OP when such hacking is the first advice given. Obviously many things are broken when users are advised to setup their live tce directories on a read only device. They are not aware of it and therefore when things don't work and our forums are filled with complaints of such things not working.  Then to compound matters instead of explaining why things are not working. instruct the user to further hack the system. Tiny Core is easily hackable and obviously many of the regulars do. But it is bad advice to start users with. I feel the same way when I see new users told to sudo this and mkdir that and command line this, when an easy GUI is already provided. Gives a bad first impression of Tiny Core that one must be masterful with the command line as witnessed by the recent posts. I don't consider it "trouble shooting" to compound an already bad configuration. Instead only compounds the confusion. Apparently the Wiki needs some policing.
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: Guy on June 10, 2011, 01:37:22 PM
Robert

As far as I know, this is the only page which suggests having a tce directory on read only media.

http://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/wiki:integrating_extensions

This page has been in the wiki for over 2 years. It has been updated at times.

Do you object to this page?
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: roberts on June 10, 2011, 01:51:10 PM
I do object, especially, given the  outcome of the OP's 2nd post in the forum, i.e., a new user. The confusion in things not working and the discord of attempting to determine such and support such.

I do not read every wiki item. I suffer with limited vision. I have to rely on the team and a knowledgeable community to support my efforts to move this distro's ease of use forward.

We need to be on the same page to promote ease of use of the system and avoid that which does not.
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: Guy on June 10, 2011, 03:27:48 PM
Ask the team what they think of this page.

This page was written by a member of your team, over 2 years ago. It has been edited a number of times since.

I think it is useful, and should be kept.

It includes the following:

Quote
The CD is Read Only

While using the tce directory on the CD, you won't be able to install, update or remove applications
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: Guy on June 10, 2011, 03:36:59 PM
Robert

To please some people, you need to be able to read their mind, and then you can't because they change it.

I would like to see you taking a more positive approach.

People are trying to support what you are doing, and make a positive contribution, but they don't think exactly like you.

I would like to see you encouraging them. I am concerned that you may be discouraging them.

Tell us about important issues, but don't complain about trivial things.

If saying this upsets you so much that you don't want me to make any further contributions, let me know.

If you don't want me to make any further contributions, I wish you all the best in the future.
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: stanner on June 10, 2011, 04:52:42 PM
I must take the blame for the apparent hard feelings and consternation.  I completely missed the statement regarding the CD being read only.  As a long time Linux user (but a new TinyCore user), I know to search the documentation, wiki's and forums and to read.  What bit me was reading too much.

I had to add firmware.tcz to the ISO to get networking to function. 

I also assumed that, subject to ram limitations, applications could be added in memory, even when booted from a CD. 

Would the FAQ's be a place for simply restating that applications cannot be added when running from a CD and having a writeable persistance directory?

(By the way, when I understood my problem, my geeky pride took a hit.)



Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: aus9 on June 10, 2011, 07:48:47 PM
RE: wiki

WIKI in my mind and in the minds of most are "Unofficial" docuementation as they are provided my members.
Some members are moderators so their wiki has higher value?

If you go down the path of policing wikis....can I suggest you remove the right of anyone to edit and change to a wki submission process.

And as soon as you do that.....I predict wiki creations and wiki editting will die off at TC.

I feel very strongly about this.....sorry to take it personally.

IMHO having submitted useful and "useless" wiki pages, a friendly forum is made friendlier by having wikis
and any process that slows down wikis tends to cause that distro to fail

I am alluding to sidux wiki....which had numerous wiki pages and when it became aptosid the wiki pages that could have been there dropped off.

Of course the reason for that drop off....relates to the "friendliess" factor and that is my point.

end of rant
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: gerald_clark on June 10, 2011, 08:52:35 PM
Why would you recommend a procedure that you state will result in failure of the wiki?

Some level of trust should be established before unlimited edit rights are granted.
Verified registration or moderator approval of first article could be sufficient.

I have seen wikis filled with spam and . when no controls are in place.
That is much more likely to kill interest.
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: Guy on June 10, 2011, 11:03:54 PM
Most people contributing to the wiki make positive contributions.

However, in the past there have been some people who have written things in the wiki which are either not true, or not relevant.

They have not been trying to intentionally make the wiki worse. They are usually people with a poor understanding of the subject, but trying to contribute. Some people have poor writing skills.

The best way to deal with them is to edit the page(s) concerned, and fix up any mistakes.

I don't think it is possible to have a set of guidelines which will result in a better wiki.

It is just a matter of dealing with any poor contributions when they occur.
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: curaga on June 11, 2011, 01:25:29 AM
The contributions of Guy and others have really improved the wiki docs. I don't think they should be restricted in this regard, having more users editing will bring up more topics where instructions are needed. It is often hard for us regulars to guess what is unclear to newcomers.

I am guilty of writing the page in question, yes. Perhaps the warning should be cat-sized. Perhaps it should be modified to have the extensions in an additional initramfs, in /opt/tce, to enable normal tce folder use.

But since the latter forces loading to ram, it is sometimes a bad choice on older systems. Maybe it would be best to recommend opt/tce as the default, with a note at the bottom pointing to these current instructions (renamed, so that existing links point to the better procedure).
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: roberts on June 11, 2011, 08:56:53 AM
I have edited said Wiki page. I find that the remarks leveled against me personally quite disturbing. I am not "discouraging". It is I that week after week, month after month toils away to improve my distribution.

It is I who sets the course, does the coding, and hours and hours of testing. I will always speak out against anything that I find is counter to the integrity of the system that I have built.
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: aus9 on June 11, 2011, 07:45:39 PM
roberts


If your remarks are directed to me.....by the comment
 I find that the remarks leveled against me personally quite disturbing.


Fact ===I referrred to some members are moderators. IMHO that is the only possible reference you appear to be upset about

Fact===I said forums can become unfriendly. Not sure how you feel that levelled against you personally

but I have written wikis....I don't blinkin care that you don't like my wikis on sound or grub or grub2 or cups etc

FACT If you don't like my wikis....get someone to edit them or delete them.

As I have clearly upset you....and I am not going to replace you...nor do I care to, I shall leave this forum.

Its possible you regard any perceived negative comment about TC forum or TC wiki as personally directed against you. I feel sorry for your current perception. You may be under a lot of stress. I am under a lot of stress at work so have idea of the tunnels our minds dig for us.

"Perception is reality"

Therefore I  resign. And delete my account

If I can't state my opinion without being attacked then its better for everyone that I leave and you guys and gals get on with the development.

good luck
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: gerald_clark on June 11, 2011, 08:03:49 PM
Attack?
Did I miss something?
Were posts deleted?

Disagreements arise, and roberts is the owner and ultimate decision maker, but I didn't see any attack.
I didn't even see an argument with aus9.
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: newbody on June 12, 2011, 07:32:07 AM
any link to his text on grub2? He has left so I can not ask him. Yes wiki but that is a big thing to look through. is it some discussion page or how do I find the text?

I have asked about grub2 before but it was way above my capacity to get that text.

The good thing about grub2 is that it allow booting of isos on NTFS and some 90% of all computers sold have ntfs on them. Using grub2 one then could boot any Linux without changing a thing and still have dual boot???

Maybe I know too little though.

Great thanks for recent changes to 3.7 RC3 that allowed me to have TCL on my ntfs. Very good.
Title: Re: appbrowser problem
Post by: maro on June 13, 2011, 07:10:30 PM
any link to his text on grub2?
@newbody: If you would have entered 'grub2' in the search box (close to the top right corner of the wiki start page (http://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/)) the result (http://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/?do=search&id=grub2&button=) would have shown "Matching pagenames". The first one listed there (labeled "from_grub1 (wiki) (http://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/wiki:grub2_from_grub1)") is most likely the one referred to by 'aus9'.

In the future: Please invest in a bit more effort on your own in finding out information. You should not expect that that every little piece will be delivered to you in a pre-digested form. You've been around in this forum long enough that you can be expected to stand a bit more on your own two feet.