Tiny Core Linux
Tiny Core Base => TCB Talk => Topic started by: JSLePub on May 29, 2011, 10:39:38 PM
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Here are my minimum goals:
TC-frugal install
Chromium
Abiword
I've got it on a USB drive, and everything works great on a modern dual-core computer with 4G RAM; but not on systems with less than 256M RAM.
I'm trying to get that to run on some old systems with 64M-128M RAM. It installs and runs until I start adding apps. After 2-3 boots, Chromium stops running. Other things mess up as well, such as things do not get deleted properly, even though they are marked for deletion. So if I mark Abiword for deletion, part of the files are deleted, but not all files get deleted; and when you try to reinstall it says that its already installed.
I suspect RAM, and I've tried setting up a cache, 256M. It shows up but I don't know if its working.
After a few boots, I end up having to reinstall.
If I don't install any apps, it seems to work.
Has anyone had any luck doing this? If so, can you tell me which apps you used? I've been reading the forum, searching for "low ram" "old computer" "old laptop" "64m ram" "128m ram" etc. Have not found much useful stuff, so if anyone sees a post with any good advice, would you let me know? Any tips and tricks appreciated, Thanks.
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OK, AFAIK the minimum RAM to boot TC is 48 MBytes. That does not leave much space for any application on a 64 MBytes system. In particular not if you've got a memory hungry browser. And lets face it: a browser build in 2011 wont run well (if at all) on a pre-2000 system (of pretty much any given OS). Even the probably least memory hungry, but still useful browser (i.e. Opera v9.64 in the 'opera.tcz' extension) won't do well even with the upper end of your suggested spec (i.e. 128 MBytes). I guess any other of the current browsers will do much worse.
These applications chew up that much memory after browsing for a few hours it's no wonder that they quickly reach the end of the available memory. Have you got a chance to use a swap file (or swap partition)? That would help to some degree, but the speed would probably be impacted quite noticeably with all the swapping going on.
So either get more memory or choose an older type browser (like 'dillo') that will likely not be able to render all pages.
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Hi JSLePub
As maro already pointed out, browsers tend to be memory pigs. Whatever browser you use, go to
preferences and knock the cache size way down, maybe to 5 Meg or so.
I suspect RAM, and I've tried setting up a cache, 256M. It shows up but I don't know if its working.
If you are talking about a software cache, don't bother. It will just compete with the memory manager
which already does caching, plus you'll have even less RAM to work with.
If you set up a swap file do not put it on a USB memory stick, you will wear it out.
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Please urgently fix the thread title.
There are many threads in this forum regarding leightweight browsers or comparing footsteps of browsers.
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Thanks all! Everyone is correct. I appreciate your answers, you've saved me a lot of trouble. I'll quit wasting my time on those old machines.
I was hoping that somehow a modern browser could run on that. Dillo, Lynx, and Chimera2 worked but did not render the pages correctly. I tried knocking the browser cache down, and letting the system cache to the hard drive, it started out ok, but quickly got too slow and still ended up crashing.
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well, it's quite ok without tabs
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Hi JSLePub
While older hardware tends to struggle with things like graphics heavy apps and browsers it tends
to be more than adequate for appliance type devices. For example, it could be set up to stream
music, act as a firewall and or router for a small LAN, or used as a fileserver. Even though the BIOS
may not be able to deal with them, you can install some monster 300-500 Gig hard drives and Linux
will correctly identify and use them. I'm sure there are other examples I missed but these might be
worth considering if you have a use for them.
@hiro:
well, it's quite ok without tabs
Huh?
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While it is true and you can finde many possible applications to keep old hardware in use for firewall, music servers, etc. one drawback is the large power consumption and noise. For an appliance more economical in longer term use a small low power consumption all in one micro PC board without cooler or even better to have an ARM based board with linux. There are many of the available.
A friend of mine for example is using an ASUS WL-500 router with LINUX as music server with an external USB drive under OpenWRT. I have seen such router advertised $49,99
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The ARM boards do have crappy performance, a 800Mhz ARM core tends to lose to a 400Mhz P2. The gap is much wider for more recent cpus, like ULV Core 2 or Via Nanos (Atoms suck ;), they are basically overclocked pentiums).
Though performance per watt counts too.
edit: The routers usually have 200Mhz single cores or less, too.
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While there are lower power alternatives available there are other consequences to consider. What to
do with the old hardware. If it gets thrown out and is old enough it will leach lead into the landfill. If it's
recycled there's the energy consumed for recycling, plus what can't be recycled will still wind up in a
landfill. There is also energy expended to manufacture the replacement device and the raw materials
that go into it. As an appliance it would not require a monitor which would reduce power by quite a bit.
As a home file server the drives could be told to spin down after 5 or 10 minutes of inactivity further
reducing power consumption. The trade-offs are numerous and the subject complex. It is not as cut
and dried as buying a lower powered board or box.
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While it is true and you can finde many possible applications to keep old hardware in use for firewall, music servers, etc. one drawback is the large power consumption and noise. For an appliance more economical in longer term use a small low power consumption all in one micro PC board without cooler or even better to have an ARM based board with linux. There are many of the available.
A friend of mine for example is using an ASUS WL-500 router with LINUX as music server with an external USB drive under OpenWRT. I have seen such router advertised $49,99
Actually older laptops could be low in power consumption and noise production; besides from TC providing for no/low noise mode of operation by design.
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@hiro:
well, it's quite ok without tabs
Huh?
If you don't use multiple tabs 256MB are quite usable with opera.
Actually older laptops could be low in power consumption and noise production; besides from TC providing for no/low noise mode of operation by design.
True, my old thinkpad x20 only needs 9W. If only I knew howto cool it without any noise... The fan is crappy.
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edit: The routers usually have 200Mhz single cores or less, too.
Right. My Python application, a communication server is consuming 10-12% CPU on ASUS WL-500 router. But works and doing the job, so I like it :)
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Except for possibly streaming music, the other apps suggested probably would not require much
CPU time either. My file server uses a 233Mhz processor and according to top consumes 1.4%
of the processor's time while it's not being accessed. Copying a 109MB file from the server results
in 85% CPU utilization and a transfer rate of 5MByte per second on a 100Mbit link.
@hiro: OK, now I get it. Thanks for the clarification.
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Until 2003, I was using very old computers (486) as routers in remote locations with extreme conditions. On some older modular Compaq laptops we pulled out every module, and ran them at 8MHz. The power consumption was not bad on those. However, they were a lot of trouble to maintain. I quit doing that because was not practical when the cheap routers became available.
I was hoping to make some newer systems that were 800MHz Celeron or higher into Internet browsers that could be given away to people who could not afford a computer. This started as a request from someone who wanted a computer to print coupons with. The main problem was that some of the sites they wanted to print from used Flash or PDF.
I send most old stuff to a recycle center. They tell me that the cost of recycling old equipment is minimal, compared to the return; especially if they contain gold. However, newer stuff is less profitable because they use less valuable materials. I would not have thought there was enough gold in those old boards to matter.
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Hello - New member and first post .... 2 days into TC using an old Compaq Armada 7400 (PII300Mhz, 128Mram (now 256M), 6G HD). All I need the laptop for is to be able to browse 2 websites. I'm a virtual race car driver and my wife and I are sick of fighting for the 'good' laptop that runs another Linux OS. I dug out the Compaq from the attic, and TC is doing better than anything else I've tried. Good job developers!
In response to the original post, with 128M memory, I had the best luck running the Minefield browser. I need a 'modern' type browser to see the 2 sites properly, and while it was abit slow at the beginning, after 15 minutes or so it would pretty much die. Running 'top' in Aterm showed every bit of memory used up.
I took a shot at a local computer place, and they sold me 2 used 128M memory cards for $12.00. While Minefield is still abit slow, the 256M has certainly improved performance. I left the laptop on overnight, with Minefield running, and woke up to over 200M of the memory in use .... but Minefield was still working.
I went back and tried some other browsers (Firefox, Seamonkey, Epiphany) and while they all worked, Minefield is still the quickest. I've done some other experiments with different apps and the laptop handles those perfectly, but the purpose of this setup is very specific to 2 sites on a modern browser.
Apologies for mixing 2 subjects within this post .... but I had to comment on how pleased I am that I've found a useable purpose for this laptop clunker thats been in my attic for years. TC is going to serve my needs quite nicely!
I'm sure I'll find other uses for TC, cause I'm too curious about it. Next app .... Matt's Traceroute (mtr) .... abslutely love that tool. Off to go get it ... :-)
Thanks for the rambling .... very pleased with the product! Larry
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Lots of responses, I didn`t read them all so someone probably pointed this out.
I have a AMD Sempron 2400+ with 256mb ram. Firefox is okay until a video is played.
Setting up a swap file solved the problem of course.
You can make a 256mb swap ( Better: 384mb, 512mb, etc. ) on your USB flash drive.
BUT... Be warned that the USB flash drive probably will only last 6 months or so.
Newer ones can be written to more times than the old ones, so maybe longer...