Tiny Core Linux
Tiny Core Base => TCB News => Release Candidate Testing => Topic started by: roberts on May 18, 2011, 05:01:08 PM
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The First Release Candidate of Tiny Core v3.7 is now posted and ready for testing.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/tinycorelinux/3.x/release_candidates
tinycore_3.7rc1.iso
tinycore_3.7rc1.iso.md5.txt
Change log:
* New added kernel module for NTFS to base, allows read access to NTFS partition.
* Updated rebuildfstab now supports NTFS-3g when ntfs-3g extension is loaded allows read-write access.
* New GUI loadpack to load, when required, Starter Pack after boot.
* Updated cpanel to reflect changes in the base.
* Updated tc-functions to better handle tcvd virtual disk.
* Updated tc-install now supports Windows and Tiny Core boot loader menu when Windows is detected.
* Added icons for editor and run.
* Move fluff to extension.
* Updated flrun cosmetic window title change.
Note: Files that have changed and are likely in your backup:
.profile FILEMGR environment variable. Was defaulted to fluff. You should change to the file manager of your choice. This is used when mount tool mounts a drive and will attempt to call FILEMGR.
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A minor thing.
When the menu is set up for Tiny Core and Windows. Tiny Core starts with a small letter and Windows starts with a capital. They should either both be capitals, or both be small.
The extlinux menu looks like this
tinycore
Windows
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A more radical idea
I suggest completely removing the installer from the base (that's what I originally thought you were doing), and have the entire installer in install-tools.gz.
The way it is at present, the installer can't be used without downloading something. Why not download the entire installer?
Doing it this way, it may be easier to start the installer from the menu or wbar, instead of the control panel.
Keep "Load Starter Pack" possibly rename it "Starter Pack"
Add an option to download install-tools.gz, for those who are connected to the internet (and automatically load it).
This would make the base a little smaller, and install-tools.gz a little larger.
Think it through.
It would be interesting hear what the team think.
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I like everything in this thread.
I hope the team doesn't get annoyed by our demanding idealism :)
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The reason tc-install remains in the base is for the following:
- Size of perl5.tcz (9.8MB) when perl is only needed if one wishes to perform a USB-ZIP pendrive install.
- There has always been the class of users that do get net (wired) access upon boot from a base Tiny/Micro Core. It is much more efficient to only load syslinux.tcz (1.3Mb) to perform a frugal install.
- Starter packs should only be an option. Quoting the README and the announcement
If you already have net access you do not need any starter packs!
. Moving tc-install into install-tools starter pack would mean this starter pack would be "required" and not an option.
- Why penalize those with base net access? It is a matter of downloading syslinux 1.3MB vs install-tools.gz (10.7). I think the choice I made should now be obvious.
Idealism vs realism.
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Yeah, abstract, theoretical idealism. I didn't even know the contents of install-tools.
I will stop talking now and try to do something practical, too :)
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RobertS
interesting that it has ntfs now. Sadly I am computer challenged. Does this mean that it now will boot using this menu.lst on ntfs hdd?
Edit Sorry so typical of my ADHD. I fail to look at text long enough to really get what it say.
look what a naive error I made tce/boot/bzimage it should naturall be this tce/boot/bzImage
Nemas problemas it booted right away and could read my hdd having NTFS too and I downloaded
Chromium but that one failed to log in here your forum server saying me had not allowed for your cookies but being as computer challenged I am I spent a 15 minutes and fail to find the cookie thing on Chromium so I dl the FF instead and write from within TCL 3.7 now.
So thanks indeed for this feature to use TCL in frugal install even on NTFS without having to resize and to create partition .
Have waited a long time for this. Now I only have to learn how to do root so I can save changes to menu.lst Had no permission it says.
Should I do su name of editor? It does not say what the name is of editor.
It does not say what password there is for root either. Maybe the FAQ has it.
oh RobertS suggests this
$ sudo -s
#
I have to try it right away. failed to work for me. Could that be due to me booting frugally on NTFS then?
Oh I get it. I have to do sudo editor which opens editor as root.
But the NTFS is set as read only so I can not save the changes so I need to do something in cli that makes it read write. Back to search.
title TinyCore
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /tce/boot/bzImage
kernel /tce/boot/bzImage vga=792
initrd /tce/boot/tinycore.gz
I use this one to load and boot SvOlli remix but would be cool to be able to load and boot the official one too.
title TinyCore Remix by SvOlli 3.4.1 with ntfs-3g
root (hd0,2)
kernel /tceSvOlli/release/bzImage tinycore noswap syslog kmap=qwerty/fi-latin9
initrd /tceSvOlli/release/tinycoreplus.gz
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to get a root editor type
sudo editor
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Guy thanks that is exactly what I did but as I get it one also need to change the read only NTFS to read and write which it may not be automatically.
Change log:
* New added kernel module for NTFS to base, allows read access to NTFS partition.
* Updated rebuildfstab now supports NTFS-3g when ntfs-3g extension is loaded allows read-write access.
it supports it but does that also apply to how I booted using frugal install on same sda3 as being what one boot from.
Thanks for caring about me
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An idea for the future - as time permits - if not too difficult
I don't know how difficult it would be to include additional code in the installer so perl5.tcz is not needed. If that could be done, it would be realistic to remove the installer from the base.
If it is too difficult, don't worry.
Just my thoughts.
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Some bugs in the installer
1. If Windows is already installed, and a user sets up a partition for Tiny Core, and makes it Active, before running the installer. Then runs the installer without selecting "Mark Partition Active (bootable)." The installer will not set up a menu for selecting Windows.
2. When running the installer. If a user does not select "Mark Partition Active (bootable)," but clicks the forward arrow. Then decides to change it, and clicks the back arrow. The option to "Mark Partition Active (bootable)" is no longer available.
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RobertS
interesting that it has ntfs now. Sadly I am computer challenged. Does this mean that it now will boot using this menu.lst on ntfs hdd?
snip...
I see several issues with regard to running Tiny Core entirely within NTFS.
Your posts suggest that you, or the remaster, is using grub4dos. Currently we use syslinux.
The reason for this is that grub4dos does not support ext4. grub4dos is primarily targeted towards supporting NTFS and DOS. Syslinux does not support NTFS and is targeted towards Linux file systems.
Let's say that you try to use the existing grub4dos with v3.7rc1 tinycore.gz. Since only the kernel module is in the base, you will only get read access to NTFS. While you boot loader grub4dos will read the kernel, bzImage, and the core, tinycore.gz, you should be able to boot Tiny Core. Tiny Core will seek the tce/ directory which will be read-only,
To get read write you need the ntfs-3g.tcz extension. But as an extension it is too late to change read-only to read-write. Even if you move ntfs-3g.tcz to be first in the onboot.lst and even if you flagged it as copy-to-fs (ram), and even if, a startup script were to be created which called rebuildfstab to update entry to rw, and callled mount -o remount,rw, I don't believe it would work.
I am surmising here as I have little access to NTFS to throughly test. Perhaps those with easy access to test will. Perhaps changing ntfs-3g.tcz into ntfs-3g.gz and specify that the boot loader, grub4dos, load ntfs-3g.gz? Can grub4dos even load multiple initialramfs?
The reason to include the kernel ntfs (read-only) module was to allow current Windows net access together with starter packs (being a single file) together with loadpack GUI as easy way to get started on a Tiny Core system with no net access.
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Some bugs in the installer
1. If Windows is already installed, and a user sets up a partition for Tiny Core, and makes it Active, before running the installer. Then runs the installer without selecting "Mark Partition Active (bootable)." The installer will not set up a menu for selecting Windows.
2. When running the installer. If a user does not select "Mark Partition Active (bootable)," but clicks the forward arrow. Then decides to change it, and clicks the back arrow. The option to "Mark Partition Active (bootable)" is no longer available.
1. By design, I don't assume to create a menu, unless Mark Partition Active is selected.
2. Using back arrow also means you must reselect the partition, once done Mark Active should be enabled.
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Interesting that grub4dos is 324k versus syslinux 1.3 MB.
Now that is food for thought.
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2. Using back arrow also means you must reselect the partition, once done Mark Active should be enabled.
It is not
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Interesting that grub4dos is 324k versus syslinux 1.3 MB.
You could remove files that are not needed in syslinux for install-tools.gz.
Leave them in in syslinux.tcz, as someone may want them.
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and even if you flagged it as copy-to-fs (ram), and even if, a startup script were to be created which called rebuildfstab to update entry to rw, and callled mount -o remount,rw, I don't believe it would work.
Shouldn't it be possible to umount the tce and then ntfs-3g mount it? With copy2fs I see nothing against it.
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I will fix. Thanks!
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and even if you flagged it as copy-to-fs (ram), and even if, a startup script were to be created which called rebuildfstab to update entry to rw, and callled mount -o remount,rw, I don't believe it would work.
Shouldn't it be possible to umount the tce and then ntfs-3g mount it? With copy2fs I see nothing against it.
You may be correct. ntfs-3g.tcz extension would then only need a startup script to call rebuildfstab.
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Thanks to all of you for caring about my naive and inquisitive questions.
I am just very selfish that demands TinyCore to be there for my sake and personal needs.
I just felt very happy that finally TCL would be as easy to use as Puppy but it still differs too much for somebody on my too challenged level of using code.
But some of your comments does indicate that maybe one could tweak it to allow me to change a menu.lst even if it is a grub4dos such and not a isolinux.
So if I get it then the whole sda3 HDD is set to read only when I do a frugal install like I have described in this thread. So there is no way to log in as root to make it read write then even temporarily?
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http://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/wiki:install_with_windows
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I am too different. We should make a new thread if we want to go on like this :)
This is my last post on this to not further derail the thread.
I am different. I only do frugal installs on NTFS. So the link you gave will help all those that accept to touch their HDD which I am very reluctant to do. Maybe some years from now when I have another new machine. or the hdd break down and me buy another one then maybe I do Ext3 on it.
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Syslinux does not support NTFS and is targeted towards Linux file systems.
Yet. It's currently a WIP that has been seeing progress in the last month.
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Interesting that grub4dos is 324k versus syslinux 1.3 MB.
You could remove files that are not needed in syslinux for install-tools.gz.
Leave them in in syslinux.tcz, as someone may want them.
What about a split, ie syslinux.tcz and syslinux-base.tcz? syslinux.tcz would dep syslinux-base.tcz while syslinux-base.tcz would only include the essentials needed to perform an install. The extlinux/extlinux installer can handle all of the file systems (as long as they're mounted) so linux/syslinux and mtools/syslinux are not needed. A lot of the COM32 modules would _NOT_ be required for basic install but can be very useful.
edit to add _NOT_
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2. Using back arrow also means you must reselect the partition, once done Mark Active should be enabled.
It is not
Fixed! Thanks for reporting.
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I have spent some time looking at grub4dos and I am able to have an install program create a no-partition NTFS Tiny Core & Windows system without remastering. Now I must decide on how I am going to proceed for v3.7rc2 :-\
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You need to keep the ability to install on a Linux filesystem.
I like the extlinux bootloader.
It is just a matter of whether you also offer other options.
Is there any chance of malfunctions or problems when installed on ntfs?
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With Tiny Core installed on ntfs, I am concerned about children, and even adults, using Tiny Core and destroying Windows.
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You need to keep the ability to install on a Linux filesystem.
I like the extlinux bootloader.
It is just a matter of whether you also offer other options.
Is there any chance of malfunctions or problems when installed on ntfs?
It, grub4dos, fully supports ext file system, you can still partition for linux native and have a Windows and Tiny Core boot menu.
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With Tiny Core installed on ntfs, I am concerned about children, and even adults, using Tiny Core and destroying Windows.
Tiny Core can run in a single directory on NTFS.
It would be an option and certainly not a default!
It would be up to the discretion of the user.
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With Tiny Core installed on ntfs, I am concerned about children, and even adults, using Tiny Core and destroying Windows.
Yes, and your point is...? ;D
Seriously, what is the difference. Some kid can destroy Windows from within Windows. Happens daily. It is silly to set limits for all sorts of imagined scenarios.
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With Tiny Core installed on ntfs, I am concerned about children, and even adults, using Tiny Core and destroying Windows.
Yes, and your point is...? Grin
Seriously, what is the difference. Some kid can destroy Windows from within Windows. Happens daily. It is silly to set limits for all sorts of imagined scenarios.
With the more recent versions of Windows, children would need to be logged in as administrator to destroy it. With Tiny Core they don't.
Inexperienced adults, and adults who make mistakes, may even do damage.
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If you go with grub4dos, I would like the extlinux installer to still be available.
You could have the extlinux installer available as an extension.
Now that you have suggested that you may go with grub4dos and make ntfs an option, some people will be disappointed if you don't.
The motto has always been, Tiny Core is about choices, this is in line with having more choices.
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To minutely reduce the risk of children destroying Windows, I suggest making the App Browser, Apps Audit, and the Control Panel, only available from the menu, not the wbar.
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I have spent some time looking at grub4dos and I am able to have an install program create a no-partition NTFS Tiny Core & Windows system without remastering. Now I must decide on how I am going to proceed for v3.7rc2 :-\
Do what you think is good for TCL and your community.
It is hubris of me to have any demands on Devs of Linux distros.
It shows how utterly naive I am. But it would be cool to be able to
use official TCL in the same way I now try to use the Remix that SvOlli made.
I wrote this on another forum
I chose this time to test TinyCore Linux newest iso that has ntfs-3G on it.
Typically I totally failed on root permissions. They suggest one do sudo editor or sudo leafpad if one have that one installed which I had not.
But the ntfs hdd is read only so even if I edited I am not allowed to save the edit.
So I need to learn change mod and such change owner and other advanced cli code.
Maybe there are newbies that are good at learning that can do such.
I am comptuer challenged so I have tried this since Ms-DOS 3.3 and failed. 1986 to now that is many years of total failure using cli.
But congratulations to RobertS on TinyCore for allowing us to boot TCL on NTSF that is a promising change of attitude.
and this
I spent some 12 hour for to get it to use a Swedish keyboard. Total defeat had to use the one from Finland which luckily for me have two languages so them care about our crazy åäö chars. We have Euro sign too but then one need to use the Alt + Gray key but that one seems to only work in xorg and I am still in Vesa. So no Euro for me Smile
But I am writing this from a booted TinyCore now but not the official one but a remix made by SvOlli in Germany. He was kind enough to get me up to speed us chatting using PM so it has a kind of persistence now and remember very much of what I do
end of quote
So if one could do on official TCL what I now can do on the remix that would be super cool.
Whatever you decide on for TCL you are the Boss over such things. I am just a naive user having selfish wishes.
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I am strongly in favour of Grub4dos: in fact I have ever used it since I discovered it, even to boot tinycore (and slax, and any other distro I used).
It has a number of nice features, for example it is very easy to `install' and to be non-invasively deployed along with a pre-existing windows (see g4d readme).
It should be considered that it seems unmaintained lately, however.
On the other hand, it looks like a very mature product, and I know of no serious bugs.
I am completely unaware if either it or syslinux are portable to other architectures, and here I am thinking about ARM, which seems a very promising road to go for nowadays.
This should be an important factor for deciding, imo.
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ARM systems usually use U-boot, or a vendor-specific hack.
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I have completed a new installation GUI that will setup Tiny Core using grub4dos
and supports NTFS embedded installations, i.e., no re-partitioning required for Windows XP (NTFS) systems.
After completing this and considering user feedback and internal discussions, this is the game plan.
1. tc-install will be removed from the base and placed into the install-tools.gz starter pack. Use
this for syslinux/extlinux installations and the custom pendrive USB-ZIP and USB-HDD
2. A new starter pack for grub4dos NTFS installations, as described above, will be available for use
with v3.7rc2 and above.
3. We are staying with isolinux for our .iso images.
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2. Using back arrow also means you must reselect the partition, once done Mark Active should be enabled.
It is not
Fixed! Thanks for reporting.
This fix is now in the starter pack install-tool.gz. Reposted.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/3.x/starterpacks/
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Thanks RobertS
I am looking forward to test tinycore_v3.7rc2 when you have it uploaded then.
Embarrassingly for me is that I still fail to get if you plan to describe how a newbie can activate that it allow him to write to the NTFS which I manage to do using SvOlli's remix. I need to click on the Edit and being Root or Superuser if that is the right word for it.
But it was easy to use but I prefer to use the official tinycore_v3.7rc2 if that one can write as the Remix allow it to.
I am talking about this:
title TinyCore 3.7rc1 or TinyCore 3.7rc2
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /tclboot/boot/bzImage
kernel /tclboot/boot/bzImage vga=792
initrd /tclboot/boot/tinycore.gz
using this in menu.lst on grub4dos booting on NTFS formatted internal hdd.
ps the reason it looks like this /tclboot/boot/ is due to the need to not mess up the official with the remix.
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Don't expect Tiny Core to change names of official files or directories to accommodate any remixes.
The starter pack is fully automated and results in a working read/write tce directory based on ntfs-3g extension.
I have released 3.7rc2 and this starter pack for team preview mode. So should be soon for public rc.
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Robert, I can assure you I had no such intentions at all.
You wrote
Don't expect Tiny Core to change names of official files or directories to accommodate any remixes.
End of quote.
You make me very happy if it works in same way regardless of how that is accomplished.
I apology if my home brewed English made my text imply something me had not intention to ask for.
Regards
Newbody.
PS late at night here locally so I turn to the dreamy side of life now and looking forward to the RC2 whenever it is ready for a download by all of us. Much appreciated that it can use NTFS even in frugal install on or in same partition that it boots up from.
A friend of TCL wrote me a PM explaining this part
"The starter pack is fully automated and results in a working read/write tce directory based on ntfs-3g extension. "
I guess me have to read up on what a Starter package is. Is that already included in the wiki or FAQ or is that something newly introduced in the 3.7 and not a part of 3.5 which I am a bit familiar with?
I always do things manually and if the Starter do things automatically that does not work for me because I already have grub4dos installed and don't want a new version replacing the old one.
So not sure what this means at all. Ooops have found the text now.
Announcing Special Extension Starter Packs
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=9585.0 (http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=9585.0)
Not easy to understand that text for a newbie I will read it many times though and try to figure it out.