Tiny Core Linux

Tiny Core Base => Micro Core => Topic started by: ALF on May 23, 2024, 11:17:20 AM

Title: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: ALF on May 23, 2024, 11:17:20 AM
Hi comunnity, this is my first POST about Amazing TinyCore Linux..

I have spent a lot of time trying to install XFCE4 with Tiny Core 15, please tell me your experience about how to do it...is possible..?

I understand that the problem is with XFCE4 Windows manager Called XFWM4..don't exist in the repository for TC15..

Thanks!
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Rich on May 23, 2024, 05:22:10 PM
Hi ALF
Welcome to the forum.

I don't use xfce, but according to this:
https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/getting-started
the command to start it is:
Code: [Select]
startxfce4
startxfce4  is provided by  xfce4-session.tcz.

These are all of the available xfce4 extensions:
Code: [Select]
libxfce4ui-doc.tcz
libxfce4ui-locale.tcz
libxfce4ui.tcz
libxfce4util-doc.tcz
libxfce4util-locale.tcz
libxfce4util.tcz
xfce4-appfinder-locale.tcz
xfce4-appfinder.tcz
xfce4-panel-doc.tcz
xfce4-panel-locale.tcz
xfce4-panel.tcz
xfce4-power-manager-doc.tcz
xfce4-power-manager-locale.tcz
xfce4-power-manager.tcz
xfce4-session-doc.tcz
xfce4-session-locale.tcz
xfce4-session.tcz
xfce4-settings-locale.tcz
xfce4-settings.tcz
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: ALF on May 23, 2024, 08:35:19 PM
Thanks Rich, but don't work.. i made two things..

1. First i made
tce-load -wi Xfbdev wbar libxfce4ui-doc.tcz libxfce4ui-locale.tcz libxfce4ui.tcz......xfce4-session.tcz xfce4-settings-locale.tcz xfce4-settings.tcz

sudo reboot..and nothings happens...the same TinyCoreScreen with an "X" instead mouse pointer...please view attached image...

Another thing...startxfce4 don't recognize the command...

Where are xfce4 taskbar, icons..etc..?

1. Make a new virtual machine with.
tce-load Xfbdev wbar openbox obconf aterm bash htop

startx and start a typical openbox desktop manager in TinyCore...

after run Appss loads OnBoot

libxfce4ui-doc.tcz
libxfce4ui-locale.tcz
libxfce4ui.tcz
libxfce4util-doc.tcz
libxfce4util-locale.tcz
libxfce4util.tcz
xfce4-appfinder-locale.tcz
xfce4-appfinder.tcz
xfce4-panel-doc.tcz
xfce4-panel-locale.tcz
xfce4-panel.tcz
xfce4-power-manager-doc.tcz
xfce4-power-manager-locale.tcz
xfce4-power-manager.tcz
xfce4-session-doc.tcz
xfce4-session-locale.tcz
xfce4-session.tcz
xfce4-settings-locale.tcz
xfce4-settings.tcz

reboot and nothing happen..the same openbox desktop..

if i quit to prompt and type

startxfce4

startxfce4: Starting X Server
startxfce4: excec: line 118: xinit: not found

I will be ver thankfull if you can give me an step by step...

Where is XFWM4 ? , why only exists for TinyCore 5.x.? Maybe the problem..?

Thanks!






Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Juanito on May 24, 2024, 06:49:57 AM
The xfce4 extensions don’t look to have been maintained since tc-5.x and as you say xfwm4 is missing.

I suspect that the xfce4 infrastructure would need rebuilding for tc-15.x.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Rich on May 24, 2024, 08:28:44 AM
Hi ALF
TC11 is the last version that lists xfwm4 extensions.
If you want to see if they still work, you can download
the files from here:
http://tinycorelinux.net/11.x/x86/tcz/xfwm4.tcz
http://tinycorelinux.net/11.x/x86/tcz/xfwm4.tcz.dep
http://tinycorelinux.net/11.x/x86/tcz/xfwm4-locale.tcz
http://tinycorelinux.net/11.x/x86/tcz/xfwm4-locale.tcz.dep
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: ALF on May 24, 2024, 09:06:29 AM
Thanks frieds...but don't work too...

Also i idid
tce-load -wi xorg-server
tce-load -wi Xorg-7.7

And..Same error..
startxfce4: Starting X Server
startxfce4: exec: line 118: xinit: not found

where is xinit..?

I had attached two images..

Maybe LXDE could be another option..?
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Juanito on May 24, 2024, 09:28:38 AM
Xinit is an xorg app - I don’t believe it is present in tc-15.x and I’m not sure how the xfce4 extensions maintainer intended xfce4 to be started.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: ALF on May 24, 2024, 09:36:49 AM
Thanks Juanito, so then ..is not possible..?
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: GNUser on May 24, 2024, 11:03:20 AM
Why not use a simple window manager such as openbox or fluxbox (which are well maintained on TCL and thoroughly tested) and then figure out how to run thunar (and whatever other applications you like from XFCE) on TCL? It's a smaller problem to solve.

When I switched all my home's computers to TCL a few years ago, I ran into a similar issue: My family was used to MATE desktop environment, but MATE's window manager is not available on TCL. No problem: I switched to a simpler window manager (fluxbox in my case) and then figured out how to run the familiar MATE applications (including caja file manager) on TCL. My family members barely noticed the difference. Window manager is like basic plumbing, hidden (in plain sight!) from casual user.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: ALF on May 24, 2024, 03:03:59 PM
Hello GNUser, you're absolutely right!! In fact, I use TC with OpenBox and Rox-Filer ( view attached image ) to have icons on the desktop... it works very well!!

Regarding XFCE, it's more of an academic topic... if it's in the repository, I hoped it would work... XFCE is very well-known and could be very comfortable for other people... I'm thinking of installing TC on some XFCE installations if possible... the support team is more familiar with an XFCE desktop... in summary, it's an academic and comfort matter.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: GNUser on May 24, 2024, 04:12:09 PM
Hi ALF. I don't use xfwm4 but decided to hack my way into making it work on my TCL15 64 bit system. Experiment was successful! I assume making it work on your TCL15 32 bit system would be similar. How motivated are you? ;D

1. Grab a few .deb packages

Do you have access to a Debian or Devuan installation? If so you can download the xfwm4 .deb file like so:

Code: [Select]
apt download xfwm4
It is trivial to convert a Debian .deb package into a TCL .tcz extension (search the forum).

I found xfwm4 needed a few libraries available in these other .deb packages: libxfce4ui-2-0, libxfce4util7, and libxfconf-0-3. You can likewise convert these .deb into .tcz.

2. Put the four custom .tcz extensions in the tce/optional directory and add them to tce/onboot.lst

3. Create startup script ~/.X.d/start-xfwm4.sh
Script should look like this and be executable:
Code: [Select]
#!/bin/sh
xfwm4 &

4. Reboot

It works for me (see attached). If it doesn't work for you, it's probably just a matter of a few additional missing libraries. If you decide to pursue this and get stuck, let me know and I'll help if I can. We can also make it less hacky (e.g., by creating a proper xfwm4.tcz.dep rather than listing each individual custom extension in onboot.lst).

Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: ALF on May 24, 2024, 06:42:12 PM
Perfect ! GNUser, Thanks you!!, sounds good!!! This weekend I will do it...I am very motivated...!!

I love to learn..

I'll keep you posted on the results!!
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: GNUser on May 24, 2024, 11:52:55 PM
Hi ALF. I have bad news: Building an xfwm4 extension with borrowed binaries and libraries from Debian is not going to work on TCL15 x86, so don't bother :-\

I tried it myself and got very close, but hit this brick wall:

Code: [Select]
$ xfwm4
... /usr/local/lib/libxfce4ui-2.so.0: undefined symbol: gdk_wayland_display_get_type

It seems that for TCL15 32 bit, creating a proper xfwm4 extension by compiling from source would be necessary.

The good news is that the TCL15 32 bit repo already contains a lot of xfwm4's dependencies, namely these:
Code: [Select]
gtk3.tcz
libXdamage.tcz
libstartup-notification.tcz
libXres.tcz

The bad news is that the TCL15 32 bit repo is missing a few libraries that, judging from the Debian binary, xfwm4 depends on. Namely these:
Code: [Select]
Shared library: [libxfce4kbd-private-3.so.0]                           
Shared library: [libxfce4ui-2.so.0]                             
Shared library: [libxfce4util.so.7]
Shared library: [libxfconf-0.so.3]
Shared library: [libXpresent.so.1]

Long story short, building xfwm4 for TCL15 x86 would be a big project that would entail creating normal and -dev extensions of the missing libraries plus xfwm4 itself (so potentially 5x2+1=11 new extensions). Brutal.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Juanito on May 25, 2024, 04:20:19 AM
The wayland error you see is because mesa/x is not compiled against wayland in tc x86 to avoid additional size.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: nick65go on May 25, 2024, 07:17:59 AM
Out of curiosity, what is so important/critically desired for XFCE?
I mean I like very much XFCE (in Alpine Linux), but my understanding is that XFCE is, like GNOME or KDE, just a desktop-environment, aka a bunch of applications (file manager, control panel, etc) + windows-manager + task-bar.

1.So, if small SIZE is the main goal, then Tiny Core has already the FLTK +WBAR + tc-panel, you just need a small file manager (gkt1 /2), some sound/memory applets (like flit, etc) for icons of ram/cpu/sound/network etc.

2. But if the goal is super-flue, like convenience, or "consistency" of colours (blah), or icons (who cares to remember their goal, if more than 10-20 icons) then ... good luck. BTW, XFCE was, once upon time, a relative small desktop paradigm alternative; not anymore.

3. if you want more "security" then CPU + kernel + libc/musl should be the latest (and bloated) -- because vulnerabilities were discovered and corrected (keep dreaming). The price must be paid somewhere, as time/ money /speed /size/ resources.

PS: in my conception, humanity must pay for at lest 3 things: laziness, or luxury or stupidity.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: GNUser on May 25, 2024, 08:05:13 AM
The wayland error you see is because mesa/x is not compiled against wayland in tc x86 to avoid additional size.
I was testing xfwm4 in TCL15 x86 in a pure X environment. I guess the libxfce4ui-2.so.0 library I borrowed from Debian Bookworm x86 is hardwired to ask about wayland display type even when running in X :o
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: ALF on May 25, 2024, 01:33:43 PM
Hello, in all these hours I have learned a lot...this experience has been very useful to me...although it has not yet had results...

1. Convert from DEB to TCZ...very interesting!!!...it opens a door to the entire Debian world...

2. I downloaded the DEB directly from the Debian Bookworm i386 page..(https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/xfwm4) I had to modify the deb2tcz program due to the type of compression..

3. I didn't know the "ar" command. So welcome to new commands!!

4. Finally download the following libraries... and leave them as TCZ.

xfwm4.tcz
libxfce4ui-2-0.tcz
libxfce4util17.tcz
libxconf-0-3.tcz
libxres1.tcz

with the next wall..

tc@box : xfwn4
xfwm4 : error while loading shared libraries: libstartup-notificacions-1.so.0: cannot open shaed object file: No such file or directory..

I understand this library is already part of the starting core... and I'm starting to get away from my goal...

I believe GNUser is more closer than me...

Also, i found two videos about the same..

Veronika dit it with TC10 ( 5 years ago..)
[/quote].. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85pOhQHKYwo
SneekyLinux too ( 13 years ago...) ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OstgrrUpDA
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: GNUser on May 25, 2024, 01:55:42 PM
Hi ALF. Borrowing from Debian is not going to work in the particular case of xfwm4. See responses #12 and #13.

To make xfwm4 work on TCL15 x86 would be a monster of a project. I think a smaller project would make for a more rewarding first foray into packaging for TCL.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: ALF on May 25, 2024, 02:38:12 PM
ok, GNUser I think you are right...what a shame!!

Anyway it was an experience!!..if one day you decide to work on that project...please count on me!!

Thanks for all!!
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: mocore on May 26, 2024, 05:45:11 AM
an xfwm4 extension with borrowed binaries and libraries from Debian is not going to work on TCL15 x86, so
... so perhaps
consider dCore (to) Import Debian Packages to Mountable SCE extensions

 https://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/board,66.0.html
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: GNUser on May 26, 2024, 07:38:56 AM
Hi mocore. Whether Debian packages are imported as tcz or sce is not the issue. See Juanito's reply above.

Your suggestion would only help ALF if mesa/x in 32-bit dCore is compiled against wayland.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Rich on May 26, 2024, 08:58:42 AM
Hi GNUser
I did a little poking around in the dCore download section:
http://tinycorelinux.net/dCore/x86/

From what I can tell, the only prepackaged SCEs are wireless
support to allow importing all other required packages.

So if he runs dCore, all of the imported packages should be
compatible with each other, shouldn't they?
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: GNUser on May 26, 2024, 02:19:57 PM
If X is also being imported then it should work.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Juanito on May 29, 2024, 02:50:21 AM
You can also see various 64bit xfce4 build scripts here:

http://tinycorelinux.net/9.x/x86_64/tcz/src/

For example:

http://tinycorelinux.net/9.x/x86_64/tcz/src/libxfce4ui/
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Juanito on May 30, 2024, 12:02:24 PM
I built the basic xfce4 packages on tc-15.x x86, it’s rough and ready, but seems to run.

If there’s an interest I can post the extensions.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Juanito on May 31, 2024, 06:20:34 AM
xfwm4 and associated extensions posted to the tc-15.x x86 repo.

To run the xfce4 desktop from the console, for example:
Code: [Select]
tce-load -i Xorg-7.7 xfwm4
sudo /usr/local/etc/init.d/dbus start
startx

Also tested with Xorg-7.7-3d, but not with Xvesa or Xfbdev.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: GNUser on May 31, 2024, 12:29:37 PM
Even though I won't be using this, just wanted to take the opportunity to say that you rock, Juanito! You are probably the most prolific package maintainer on the planet.

Enjoy, ALF. Now you can have your Tiny Core and XFCE it, too!
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Leee on May 31, 2024, 12:36:33 PM
Even though I won't be using this, just wanted to take the opportunity to say that you rock, Juanito! You are probably the most prolific package maintainer on the planet.

Enjoy, ALF. Now you can have your Tiny Core and XFCE it, too!
What he said!   "+1"
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Juanito on June 01, 2024, 07:45:06 AM
Thanks for the kind words  :)

xfwm4 dep file modified to load mousepad, xfce4-notifyd and xfce4-terminal

xfce4 apps parole, ristretto and xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin added to the repo.
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: ALF on June 01, 2024, 10:36:40 AM
Hello Juanito, I already had lost hope, and by chance I entered the forum and saw what you had done...incredible!!!...I haven't tried it yet, but this weekend I will...Thank you very much!! ...from now on I have more hope in humanity!!!
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: ALF on June 01, 2024, 10:59:27 PM
Hello!, I am sending you an image of my XFCE4 on a 32 Bit Tiny Core machine..Great!!!

For those who use Virtual Box, I also had to make a

tce-load -wi llvm15-lib xf86-video-vmware

Thank you very much Juanito! Out of curiosity, what exactly did you do? Did you have to compile all of XFCE? I'm asking you to learn...
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Juanito on June 02, 2024, 04:23:36 AM
See here for the build details:

http://tinycorelinux.net/15.x/x86/tcz/src/xfce4/

..and here for the build order:

https://linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/svn/xfce/xfce-core.html
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Juanito on June 02, 2024, 08:33:21 AM
xfce4-power-manager now loaded with xfwm4

xfce4-battery-plugin and xfce4-cpugraph-plugin added to repo
Title: Re: XFCE in TinyCore 15 32 Bits
Post by: Juanito on June 02, 2024, 11:07:16 AM
xfwm4 and xfce4-session re-posted with minor changes.

thunar-volman added.