Tiny Core Linux

General TC => Programming & Scripting - Unofficial => Topic started by: xor on November 18, 2023, 03:05:51 AM

Title: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: xor on November 18, 2023, 03:05:51 AM

Anyone who has just discovered TCL; He wants to try the latest versions of the applications he uses most.

However, since this is a somewhat arbitrary request, it will be obvious that it is not welcomed;

No one is anyone's servant, everyone is aware of this;

To solve this classic and recurring problem;

Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.

On average, each application makes bug fixes and security updates nearly 10 times a year.

people may want to use linux, ( But people may not want to learn Linux.) this needs to be respected.

Everything develops and changes over time :)

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: gadget42 on November 18, 2023, 02:13:30 PM

Quote from: xor on November 18, 2023, 03:05:51 AM

.......
people may want to use linux, (But people may not want to learn Linux.)
.......

.......the world is your oyster.......
https://distrowatch.com/

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: Rich on November 18, 2023, 04:30:25 PM

Hi xor

Quote from: xor on November 18, 2023, 03:05:51 AM

... people may want to use linux, ( But people may not want to learn Linux.) ...

Then they need to use a bloated Linux that does everything
for you, not Tinycore Linux.

Code: [Select]

... this needs to be respected.No, it doesn't.

Title: To get the latest version of the application without dealing with the warehouse;
Post by: xor on November 19, 2023, 12:29:30 AM

To get the latest version of the application without dealing with the warehouse; "GetLatest.sh"

I analyzed the problems and errors I have experienced in my Linux experiences for 20 years.

errors. Linux has never been an operating system based on reaching the end user.

One of the biggest problems experienced by end users has always been file system problems.

For someone whose native language is not English
In addition to reading a document in a foreign language, the command system is as difficult and complex as learning two languages at the same time.

TCL is the healthiest Linux distribution on RAM disk.

I use TCL especially for banking transactions.
instead of constantly downloading updates

"firefox_getLatest.sh" is an excellent alternative,

It's ridiculous that this script is limited to only Firefox.

I look at the files in the storage, all 3rd party applications other than system files are a waste of unnecessary time and energy.

To overcome this problem; It is important that you act with the logic of "firefox_getLatest.sh"

But I also understand this!

When a person makes a mistake that he knows is right for 10 years,

It is difficult to accept that he may have made a mistake.

Title: Re: To get the latest version of the application without dealing with the warehouse;
Post by: CentralWare on November 19, 2023, 04:09:13 AM

Quote from: xor on November 19, 2023, 12:29:30 AM

I look at the files in the storage, all 3rd party applications other than system files are a waste of unnecessary time and energy.

There are two flavors of Linux out there.  PAID and FREE.
PAID (such as Red-Hat, for example) means there's people getting paid to do some of the things their customers want to see.  Does it mean they have the most recent version of FireFox?  Not necessarily.
FREE (such as Fedora - which is the testing grounds for Red-Hat) is managed similar to TinyCore...  if there's a problem, WE (forum admins and moderators) look into it when necessary...  not paid employees...  many times not even thanked or shown gratitude...  but the same people who you think we've wasted our time and energy on making this available to you.

Before you decide to continue on your rant, might I suggest reading our Introduction Page (http://tinycorelinux.net/intro.html) first?

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: core-user on November 19, 2023, 08:04:12 AM

I always appreciate the time & effort the admins & coders put into distros, & try to let them know, because I'm not a coder, & I use the forums for information, but answer questions to help out, if I can, it's the only way that I, personally, can 'give back' to our community.

So.....thank you, coders & admin, I for one do appreciate your efforts. :)

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: CentralWare on November 20, 2023, 05:41:11 AM

@core-user: There are those such as yourself - my hat's off to those who enjoy the efforts others generously provide (and sure, a quick "thanks" never hurts :) )
There are those who ghost...  stop by, get what they came for...  and then gooooone like the wind.  I'm good there, too, though it'd be nice to know "Hey, what did you think of it!?"

Don't get me wrong, I just spent the past four hours beating my head against a virtual wall with a computer I just couldn't get TinyCore to play nice with...  until that last ditch effort...  finally it did.
So, okay, sometimes there's a little "less" enjoy! :)  My work-around may end up being someone else's cure to prevent the same from happening to them (it's a hardware issue that TinyCore's not to blame in the slightest -- Debian and CentOS both failed, too!!!)

Some folks are just too lazy to act on what they see as being "lacking" or able to be made better.
(OP noted how some peeps don't want to learn...  Plenty of college wallpaper (in boxes, somewhere)...  and I'm still learning - none of my history would be possible if I didn't "want" to learn.)

Some folks just like to spread negativity when/where ever possible - looking for fault, especially if there is none.  It's a driving force!  "...there has to be a flaw here, I just know it!  I won't rest until I've proven..."

Then there are those who think the world and/or everyone around them owes them a debt of sorts...  I s`pose some people never learn! :)

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: gadget42 on November 20, 2023, 09:32:30 AM

my general understanding of the OP request(and taking into consideration language barrier issues):

OP would like a distro more along the lines of Damn Small Linux where enough of the basics are there and working so anyone/someone/everyone could grab the iso, burn disks/sticks/cards, and hand-out/pass-out/share the *nix-goodness with _everyone_ and so that an active internet/www connection is not necessary to use it for most general-computing purposes.

ymmv

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: Rich on November 20, 2023, 11:52:09 AM

Hi gadget42

Quote from: gadget42 on November 20, 2023, 09:32:30 AM

my general understanding of the OP request ...

Your understanding is incorrect.

What the op wants is to dictate how Tinycore should function.
Then he wants to make it someone else's problem to implement
his vision of how Tinycore should function.

Case in point:

Quote from: xor on November 19, 2023, 12:29:30 AM

To get the latest version of the application without dealing with the warehouse; "GetLatest.sh"

I analyzed the problems and errors I have experienced in my Linux experiences for 20 years. ...

The current version of Tinycore contains 2500 extensions for x86
and 3000 extensions for x86_64.

Who will be writing several thousand  "GetLatest.sh"  scripts to
build and package all of those extensions?

Maybe xor with his 20 years of Linux experience will take on
some of the responsibility. Just kidding. xor is a taker, not a giver.

Even if his plan were implemented, his next demand will go like this:
"It takes too long to run the  "GetLatest.sh"  scripts when I want to
 install an extension. You should run the  "GetLatest.sh"  scripts on
 the server every day so the latest versions are always available for
 me. But do it while I'm sleeping so it doesn't effect me."

So I guess the simple answer is, the op wants a personalized Linux.
He wants the official Tinycore release to be personalized to his needs.

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: Vaguiner on November 20, 2023, 06:12:41 PM

Quote from: xor on November 18, 2023, 03:05:51 AM

Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.

Quote from: xor on November 19, 2023, 12:29:30 AM

...this script is limited to only Firefox.

I  suggested something related to this on;

Quote from: CardealRusso on August 07, 2023, 11:20:24 PM

After seeing the symmetry of packages in alpinelinux, I had the idea of creating a script to automate tcz, for all tinycore architectures. I would emulate each architecture in qemu, compile and get the files over ssh...

But it is tiring and depends on some changes in the "system" of packets.

The current package system for me is discouraging. A lot of manual labor, a lot of effort, which is repeated with each update. This discourages the contributions too much.

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: xor on November 20, 2023, 08:37:39 PM

There is a proverb: "A lazy man is a smart man."
Of course, I don't know how Google Translate will translate this.

I'm not saying we should burn the libraries.
My suggestion is a different perspective;

For example, Firefox constantly receives so many updates;
a tiny core developer turned this into a fully automatic update reduction .sh file,

Is this a successful trial?
The answer to the question is; yes, successful :)

Can this model be predicted for other popular applications?
The answer to the question is; Yes

Am I asking for the impossible here?
The answer to the question is; No,

question ; So, What is the problem ?

I want tiny core linux to reach larger audiences.

But what is the purpose here? Should we keep this as a distribution that tastes like a nostalgic computer friendship club stuck between the 80s and 90s?

We all have limited time due to our work lives;
or even if we are retired; We have a limited life.
Why don't we focus on things that will make things easier!?

The person who came up with the .sh script structure and I think is no longer alive.
People who work hard to make things easier in life and who want things to advance technologically; He left a legacy of humanity to humanity.

I don't understand anything about firefox's automatic installation script.
But when I ask the artificial intelligence to read this and explain it line by line,
The picture has become a little more understandable.

It worked partially when I asked it to produce an alternative,
Then it gave an unknown error somewhere.
If only ai could do this job perfectly.
Currently in the script section of the forum;

The automatic update scripts I would send would be very popular. Let's see if artificial intelligence is promising in this regard.

The future of programming is already changing since it may take longer than a normal person's life to maintain the open source codes developed by 1000s of programmers.
It is now obvious that advanced programming will be handled by artificial intelligence!

I don't see tiny core linux as a linux distribution.

I perceive and evaluate it as a different GNU architecture.

Perhaps tomorrow, this system architecture will be able to work with a different non-Linux kernel, and we should consider Linux alternatives that are more efficient, smaller and consume less RAM.

In this respect, tiny core linux may turn into a name like tiny core gnu in the future, due to its philosophy. Maybe this could happen a generation later.

I think what brings us all together here is the philosophy of the work and the event.

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: CentralWare on November 20, 2023, 11:44:05 PM

@xor:

Quote

Am I asking for the impossible here?

Yes, actually, you are.

The lazy man has no job - thus no income - thus no responsibilities to mention.
The lazy man has free time to do what you ask if only he was not so lazy as to learn for himself what's required to accomplish it.
Since he possesses no skills to do as you've asked, he's too smart for his own good - or anyone else's, and so what you've asked goes undone.

Including the kernel and BusyBox, there are more than 3,000 pieces that make up just Tiny Core Linux 14x64.

Each build script would take anywhere from 30 minutes to ~5 hours to build depending on how many obstacles I'd face for each one.  On occasion, it's quite a bit longer - especially on large, multi-faceted packages where vast amounts of tracing and debugging comes into play.  Pretending for a moment this were legitimate, I would invest no more than four people on a semi-full-time basis thus an average of four build scripts theoretically would be completed each work day.  There are roughly 250 work days in a calendar year; as such we would require three years to accomplish this task with four technicians.

Our shop rate varies, but averages $130/hr for IT development.  Please understand, other people charge more...  some charge less.
Emphasis: this does not include the platforms for x86, aarch, ARM, etc. -- only PC 64-bit.

For those of us with responsibilities, I can close this conversation once and for all by asking one simple question:

Of the $390,000.00 USD (plus tax, VAT or what ever evil takes your money) it is estimated to cost to accomplish what you've personally asked for,

How will you be paying for this development contract?  Cash is a universal language.  The lazy man doesn't have any of his own.

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: xor on November 21, 2023, 12:09:29 AM

As always, I'm trying to explain something with Google Translate.
(The 3rd world war will break out on the lies of news channels.)

We are discussing a philosophy here.

Everyone here makes an effort.

Even I may not be able to take care of a problem.

But sometimes a good question is better than a good answer. !

A script makes things a lot easier.

And by the way, your overreaction

From the prediction that artificial intelligence may put software developers in a really difficult situation in the future

I sensed a justified reaction.

Artificial intelligence will do coding in the future

As for the reasons?

I used artificial intelligence to print a program.

When I say make it smaller and run faster

translated the codes into ASM language.

the codes seem too long

When I say deduplicate to simplify this.

What emerged was a work that could not be written by human hands,
but was created by a machine produced by human hands in theory and practice.

It introduced coding with the smallest size and fastest system access.

no future library knowledge

Those who explain in an understandable language what they create in their imagination,
It seems like it will shape the future.
(of course; this is a dream for now)

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: CentralWare on November 21, 2023, 12:32:17 AM

...ooO(Did anyone here say anything at all, let alone over-react about AI taking over or putting us in a predicament of any kind at all?)

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: gadget42 on November 21, 2023, 01:05:50 AM

this thread reminded me of something i read a while back

https://easyos.org/dev/how-to-compile-a-linux-distribution-from-source.html

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: xor on November 21, 2023, 06:05:06 AM

The subject here is not about people or individuals!

road map of technology!!!

Quote from: CentralWare on November 21, 2023, 12:32:17 AM

...ooO(Did anyone here say anything at all, let alone over-react about AI taking over or putting us in a predicament of any kind at all?)

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: nick65go on November 21, 2023, 06:45:12 AM

Short remarks, then I am out of this not productive discussion.

If "someone" wants some scripts to build EACH package (programs & libraries) then why not switch to distributions like Alpine-Linux, Arch-Linux, or even Gentoo-Linux. Why that person insist (as a stubborn) to ask this from Tiny-core developers?

And what will be the "advantage" of reading / understanding those scripts, if all that person needs is to RUN a program? Then Windows 10/11 is [one of the] the path for ready-to-go system/applications + its vast repositories.

As always, please start (for yourself) to define yours goals first [in details!], and ask (yourself) what you do expect to gain & how you will co-interest others to do/join/align to yours goals.

PS: in the last 3 months, I mange to convince (myself) that all I need from windows 11 ( yeah, I know,.. do not hit the messenger) are just few programs: Edge/(eventually Firefox 119), MS Office 2011 /(eventual LibreOffice), 7Zip, Mplayer (eventual VLC) and Notepad++ ... and that is all for now. No partitioning. not formatting partitions, not install other programs (PDF reader, Text editors, etc). YMMV, but I get them included in the price so.. used them. No shame, no other spies (ecept the usual/ omnipresent Google, Amazon, Microsoft, governments, ISP, you named it). Plus is good to compare (know your enemy).

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: xor on November 21, 2023, 07:55:03 AM

Our latest advanced utopian conversation with artificial intelligence

It was about deduplication!

A structure where everything is integrated on a single executable file; singularity.

So, if you ask, how did it get to this point?
How can you run a program the fastest?
How can you do better?
The codes are too long, shorten it in a new language and
make efficiency more stable on commands
At the point of propositions; The singular proposal was reached.

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: nick65go on November 21, 2023, 08:46:19 AM

If AI obtains "singularity" (for program, structures, whatever) then humanity (and you) will be annihilated/dead/vanish.
The robots (and the programs managed by them) do no need the capricious humanity (who need food, shelter, pension, voting, etc) to be the master for AI.
The master will be AI/singularity as a "better"/faster/cheaper etc solution, eliminating the frictions with/between humans.

I am out. You waste my time. Have a life without Tiny-core; you proved that it is not suitable/comfortable for you. wiki "Q.E.D"

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: xor on November 21, 2023, 12:12:27 PM

Why are we so afraid of artificial intelligence?

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: GNUser on November 21, 2023, 01:36:03 PM

Quote from: xor on November 18, 2023, 03:05:51 AM

( But people may not want to learn Linux.) this needs to be respected.

Hi xor. Tiny Core Linux's goal is not to provide the user with a ready-to-use OS. TCL is more like an OS-building toolkit for you to make your own (customized, lean, bitrot-resistant) OS. Users need to respect the goals of a project. A project cannot cater to the goals of every user.

If people do not want to learn Linux, that's fine--but TCL will not be a good fit for them. There are projects out there whose goal is to provide a linux-based OS for such people. Linux Mint and Ubuntu come to mind, but there are many others. Choose one and be happy.

Title: Re: Duplicate the scripts that convert different distributions to the TCL package.
Post by: mocore on December 30, 2023, 10:26:50 PM

Quote from: Rich on November 20, 2023, 11:52:09 AM

Who will be writing several thousand  "GetLatest.sh"  scripts to
build and package all of those extensions?

sounds a lot like forum section 13 ( which oddly seams to be the only one that's title is a clickable  collapsible link *twilight zone music* )
https://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php#c13 dCore Import Debian Packages to Mountable SCE extensions