Tiny Core Linux
General TC => General TC Talk => Topic started by: GNUser on February 18, 2022, 08:19:50 AM
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I run TCL13 x86_64 on a laptop. Laptop has an internal wifi card (wlan0) but I prefer to use a wireless usb adapter (wlan1), which is always plugged in.
About half the time, after boot both wireless interfaces are recognized (e.g., "ifconfig -a" shows both wlan0 and wlan1) and all is well. The other half the time, only wlan0 is recognized and don't know how to make wlan1 show up short of rebooting and hoping that it will show up after the reboot.
Two questions: Is there something I can do after boot to make wlan1 show up? Is there something that can be done during boot to make wlan1 be recognized more consistently?
PS: I've seen the "waitusb" boot code. Does it exist exactly for the kind of problem I'm experiencing? I didn't want to assume.
PS2: The laptop is used as a router and is not in a very accessible place. Therefore, unplugging/replugging the device is not an option.
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I just checked and can confirm that this machine already boots with "waitusb=5", so my problem occurs despite me already using that boot code.
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waitusb is for slow usb sticks that you're using for tce/backup. For helping a wlan stick, it depends on why it's not showing up. For a driver issue, you can modprobe -r and modprobe the driver. If it drew too much power etc, you can disable and enable the usb hub/ports via /proc or /sys, I don't remember the details.
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curaga, thanks for clarifying the intended use for waitusb. Next time the problem occurs, I will try both approaches you recommended and will report back.
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Hi GNUser
The first thing I would do is grab copies of dmesg and /var/log/messages* when it works and again when it fails.
It's possible they will provide clues to why wlan1 doesn't always come up.
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Hi, Rich. I have rebooted over 10 times and cannot get it to show up at all. Maybe the device was on its last leg and now it's totally dead.
I replaced the device with a different one and now wlan1 shows up after boot 100% of the time. (Old device was Atheros, new one is Ralink--unfortunately this introduces a lot of variables. It would be interesting to see if a brand-new Atheros would also show up after boot 100% of the time, but I don't have any new Atheros ones on hand.)
If I discover anything interesting I will update the thread. Thank you both for all your help! :)
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Hi GNUser
Logs of when it fails to show up could still provide clues. There just won't be good logs to compare against.
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Hi, Rich. The usb adapter that acts up is made by Alfa and has an AR9271 chipset (one of these: https://tinyurl.com/5n6kkcsc). I grepped through the output of dmesg and these entries seem relevant:
usb 1-1: device descriptor read/64, error -110
usb 1-1: new high-speed USB device number 3 using ehci-pci
usb 1-1: device descriptor read/64, error -110
usb 1-1: device descriptor read/64, error -110
usb usb1-port1: attempt power cycle
usb 1-1: new high-speed USB device number 4 using ehci-pci
usb 1-1: device not accepting address 4, error -110
usb 1-1: new high-speed USB device number 5 using ehci-pci
Do these errors mean anything to you? A quick internet search suggests that the error has something to do with insufficient power (e.g., https://askubuntu.com/a/644014). The laptop is old and always has the wireless adapter as well as two other USB devices plugged in. Maybe the three devices together demand more power than the laptop can provide.
The replacement usb adapter that is working consistently is made by Ralink and has the RT5370 chipset (one of these: https://tinyurl.com/2p97tw34)
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If you wish you could try to connect the adapter to Powered usb hub and then to the network adapter.
To amplify the power, to the network adapter.
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Hi GNUser
Error 110 is a timeout error which could be caused by many things, including a failing USB peripheral.
A powered USB hub could be used to confirm if it's a power issue. It could also be used to power all external
USB devices and remove that load from the laptop.
... PS2: The laptop is used as a router and is not in a very accessible place. ...
Some laptops have a little fan with vents on the bottom to pull in air. A side effect of this design is the laptop
functions as a mini vacuum cleaner, pulling in dust and increasing it's internal temperature. If yours is designed
this way, consider propping it up so there is a large open area around that intake. This will reduce how much
dust gets sucked in.
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Thank you, patrikg and Rich, for the excellent advice. I have created some extra room around the laptop to increase cooling and decrease dust intake. I will look into getting a powered usb hub. I'll report back eventually. In the meantime, the Ralink device will tide me over.
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while looking into the exhaust side of the airflow path, shine a flashlight into the intake side. you should see an unobstructed path all the way across the radiator. pet hair is the great enemy of a cool running machine...go figure.
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A powered USB hub made wlan1 show up consistently. Plus I cleared some space around the laptop (including beneath it) to keep it cool. And I also stopped using the "waitusb" boot code now that I know it has nothing to do with this issue.
Thank you all so much for sharing your insights. You guys are one sharp bunch. The issue is 100% solved :)
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Hi GNUser
Thank you for the update and congratulations on your success.
Thread has been marked as solved.
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@GNUser: The concept of a wall-powered laptop not being able to power a radio (wifi) sounds rather odd, considering how much the average radio draws versus something like the CPU fan, which is likely to draw quite a bit more than something plugged into USB. Since you have introduced a powered USB hub and seemingly have a working platform, you've added two new things to the mix: fresh copper pads (the USB sockets the radio plugs into) and Vcc (a secondary power supply).
The radio has four pins inside the connector, Vcc (5v "plus"), Ground, and the two pins in the middle are Data. I'm betting one or both of the outside pins are oxidized, making a poor connection with the laptop's USB pins, which are also possible to have the same symptoms.
- Power down the laptop and remove the battery (just for safety, some laptops have one or more USB ports that stay lit after the unit itself is shut off.)
- A burnishing tool is normally used, which most people don't have in their homes, but 3,000 grit or higher sandpaper is now found in most local hardware stores (Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.) which would be my second choice. Lightly sand the contacts (on the laptop) using a piece of folded high-grit sandpaper; it doesn't usually take much effort before the contacts are "shiny gold" in color. Repeat this process on any USB devices whose USB contacts are dulled; this "dull" look is actually oxidation and can prevent a solid connection between the laptop and USB devices plugged into it.
- Once "sanding" is complete, you'll want to clean out any dust/debris - Isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol on a Q-Tip (usually with some of the cotton removed so it fits nicely inside the USB connector) will help clean things up quite nicely.
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Hi centralware
@GNUser: The concept of a wall-powered laptop not being able to power a radio (wifi) sounds rather odd, ...
I guess you missed this part:
... The laptop is old and always has the wireless adapter as well as two other USB devices plugged in. ...
... Since you have introduced a powered USB hub and seemingly have a working platform, you've added two new things to the mix: fresh copper pads (the USB sockets the radio plugs into) and Vcc (a secondary power supply). ...
Yes, but prior to adding the powered hub he did this:
... I replaced the device with a different one and now wlan1 shows up after boot 100% of the time. (Old device was Atheros, new one is Ralink ...
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re: cleaning electronics/plastics/etc...
make sure you ONLY use PLASTIC SAFE contact cleaner!!!
use the non-plastic type and your plastics will NEVER be the same EVER again!
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@Rich:
... I replaced the device with a different one and now wlan1 shows up after boot 100% of the time. (Old device was Atheros, new one is Ralink ...
Correct; thus why I responded. (Atheros sounds to be oxy/corroded and if it's been sitting in the same USB port for some time, this tends to be shared with the host port.)
@gadget42: I suggested iso alcohol as a starting point, not contact cleaner. Being a 30+ year veteran engineer and Master C.E.T., I try not to advise people to use chemicals they're unfamiliar with. If symptoms improve after my recommendation (theory realized) but aren't perfect or are intermittent, I usually suggest a technician; some of the chemicals in my truck for electronics requires PUCO/DOT licensing just to tote them around; I'm surely not going to assume someone on a forum I've never met has a clue how to use, handle, dispose of and not blow themselves up with one of these items! Additionally, "plastic" is hardly a term that can be used considering the numerous materials that are used to manufacture jacks, edge-card connectors, sockets and other male/female devices. These materials range from polyurethane based compounds (aka: Thermo-Plastics) to ABS and Nylon; all of which would react differently to certain acidic and/or corrosive chemicals, thus the suggestion around Iso Alcohol - it's readily available, a "reasonably good" cleaning agent, dries quickly, low electronics risk factor and save for being flammable, you don't hear about people exploding/detonating anything due to iso fumes.
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Hi centralware
... (Atheros sounds to be oxy/corroded ...
My mistake. I misread what you wrote. I thought you were refering to the laptops USB port. :-[
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most folks are familiar with walmart and they carry one of our favorites:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/CRC-Electronic-Cleaner-Quick-Dry-for-Sensitive-Electronics-11-oz/16817418
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@gadget42: I've used that can once on an old dial-style am/fm radio; it could just be the scenario at hand, but it seemed to have left a white powdery residue when it dried; thus we've avoided it since. Any similar results on your end?
@Rich: The sad truth to electronics (physics with metals in general, too) is when two different metals make contact over a period of time, the composition tends to lead to a chemical reaction between the metals. For example, back in the day when all homes and businesses were piped with copper water lines... many people used (much cheaper) steel and aluminum/tin straps to bolt the plumbing to the structure - which on the date of the installation looks just as professional, but because of the different metals being pressed against one another for long periods of time, it causes a special type of break-down.
See: https://www.google.com/search?q=galvanic+corrosion
Now the funny part with electronics (such as USB ports, PCI, etc.) is people talk about how gold pads on cards make for better conductivity - which is true... however, if the partnering side is not also gold (most are copper) you run into the same situation.
In the Op's case, there's a very good chance the WiFi PCB is "coated" (oxidized) and if it's true, the female pins within the laptop are also subject to the same residue. When you make a clean connection (new USB hub, especially if self powered) you're taking pins 1 and 4 out of the equation. Remove the power from the hub and you're likely to start seeing problems. (A USB Port voltage meter would be a good way to prove the situation as to whether or not there's ample juice to power the WiFi device; wiggle the meter in the USB socket and it may even black out if connectivity is that bad.) From a technician's perspective, both the device and the laptop are burnished/cleaned, tested for proper feed voltage and ground and then burn-tested to ensure the problem no longer exists. (Granted, in today's day, most techs working on an old XP laptop would instead respond with "...it's old. Get a real machine!" Sad to imagine what they think about older people instead of tech.
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@centralware: it will sometimes haze any residual flux left over from soldering(a cotton swap and a little extra flushing usually gets rid of that). other times it will flush out old/caked/dried-out lubricants and those can leave powder/residue/streaks/traces(again, cotton swaps and some extra flushing usually washes it away)
also regarding the "what they think about older people"...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green
or perhaps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Obsolete_Man
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Hi centralware
Yes, I'm familiar with galvanic reactions. 25 years ago I started sailing when my friend got a sailboat. I've freed
up my share of Stainless steel screws holding Aluminum fittings. Those 2 are pretty much at the opposite ends
of the galvanic series.
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@gadget: It's time to grind up the neighbors! (Cover reads: "...It's the year 2022...")
Thanks for the 5-in-the-morning grin to both of you!
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i'd rather be sailing...
speaking of sailing:
https://badnarik.org/category/sailing/
as always, YMMV(your mileage may vary)
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