Tiny Core Linux

Tiny Core Extensions => TCE Q&A Forum => Topic started by: Paulo on March 10, 2013, 03:56:44 PM

Title: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 10, 2013, 03:56:44 PM
Hi all

Using coreplus 4.7.5 and JWM and I notice that using ALT+TAB does not restore open windows which have
been minimised if at least one window is not still showing (has focus).

To replicate this:

- open several windows.
-minimise them all.
-pressing ALT+TAB will highlight each one in turn (at top of screen) but will not restore them.

In order to cycle through the minimised windows using ALT+TAB, restore one window with the mouse
then using ALT+TAB will work as expected.

Is this a bug or a "feature"?

Paulo.



Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: genec on March 10, 2013, 11:42:44 PM
Doesn't this really belong in TCE bugs?
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Rich on March 11, 2013, 12:18:38 AM
Hi genec
If someone states that it's working as intended, I'll move it.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Lee on March 11, 2013, 09:06:55 AM
Quote
If someone states that it's working as intended,

If I open several windows, minimize them all and cycle through them with alt-tab, each window is restored in turn.

Using Core 4.7.5, Xlibs, Xprogs, Xorg-7.5, wbar and jwm.  Windows included in test were minefield7, emelfm2 and filezilla.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Rich on March 11, 2013, 11:41:42 AM
Hi Lee
Thank you for testing and providing detailed information of the test environment. That sure sounds like it is
working as intended.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 11, 2013, 01:40:08 PM
Hi Lee and thanks for testing, although I can't explain why mine behaves as it does.
I have tried several times and each time it does the same, have even tried different apps and all do the same.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Rich on March 11, 2013, 01:52:16 PM
Hi Paulo
I don't use jwm but I see it includes:
Code: [Select]
usr/share/jwm/tce/.jwmrc
usr/share/jwm/tce/.jwmrc-keys
usr/share/jwm/tce/.jwmrc-theme
usr/share/jwm/tce/.jwmrc-tray
usr/share/jwm/tce/menu_template
which I'm guessing are configuration files. Maybe one of those alters that behavior?
The only other thing I can think of is you are running xvesa and not Xorg, though I don't know if that would have
any effect.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 11, 2013, 02:00:07 PM
Hi Rich
Thanks for the info, I will check them to see what effect they may have.
Perhaps I messed something up whilst configuring the WM, I will put a fresh version of TC
on a USB stick and compare.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Lee on March 11, 2013, 02:12:31 PM
I have to confess, I have a -bunch- of other stuff loaded - I only listed the extensions that seemed most likely to be relevant....

I just tried the same thing after booting base norestore and loading -only-

Xlibs Xprogs Xvesa wbar jwm emelfm2 minefield7 and filezilla (and their deps)

and I -am- experiencing the problem as described.

Note that I am on a different physical box than earlier, though booting from the same media, and I am having a hard time getting Xorg to run so using Xvesa instead.

I suspect it is the Xvesa vs. Xorg-7.5 difference that is allowing me to see the issue.

I -have- made changes to my .jwmrc* files, which changes would not be present with "base norestore", however I don't remember any  such changes that would be relevant.

More testing as time permits.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: tinypoodle on March 11, 2013, 02:57:37 PM
Hi Rich
Thanks for the info, I will check them to see what effect they may have.
Perhaps I messed something up whilst configuring the WM, I will put a fresh version of TC
on a USB stick and compare.
No need, you can just boot with code "norestore".
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 11, 2013, 02:59:22 PM
Aha, thanks tinypoodle, I forgot about "norestore".
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Lee on March 11, 2013, 03:01:25 PM
Hmmm...

Xorg-7.5 declines to run on this box:

"(EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration."

Xvesa runs very nicely.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 11, 2013, 04:23:27 PM
Hi Lee

I do recall Xorg giving me a hard time on other machines too when trying out different distros.
Can't remember the Xorg versions but recall having weird problems ranging from frozen machines to just black screens.
Switching to Xvesa solved the problems.


Tried "norestore" and a fresh install and in both cases the problem with ALT+TAB persists.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: genec on March 12, 2013, 09:56:15 PM
Hi genec
If someone states that it's working as intended, I'll move it.
No harm intended.  My understanding was just that TCB implies core.gz and anything on X would imply TCE.

EDIT: I apologize.  My intention was only to help Paulo.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Rich on March 12, 2013, 10:14:21 PM
Hi genec
No harm done. I don't know if it's a bug, or that's just the way it works. Unless someone can definitively show
that this is a bug, it think it belongs under TCE Q&A.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 13, 2013, 03:03:25 AM
Hi
Another thing I found with Firefox17 which could be related is by pressing F11 it should go to full screen but the screen simply flashes and then goes back to normal.
By normal I mean the task bar at the top and Firefox as a normal window below it.
It´s as if the task bar at the top stops it.
Perhaps there is an option somewhere to make it not always be on top, like an autohide feature.
There may be other settings too that would sort out the original bug/behaviour I described.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: tinypoodle on March 13, 2013, 03:45:41 AM
Code: [Select]
tc@box:~$ grep layer .jwm*
.jwmrc-tray:   <!-- Additional tray attributes: autohide, width, border, layer, layout -->
.jwmrc-tray:   <Tray  x="0" y="0" height="15" layer="3">

autohide versus layer are separate attributes.

Before you change jwm config I suggest you test with changing layer of your apps window, e.g. Layer -> Top
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 13, 2013, 08:11:38 AM
Thanks tinypoodle will try it as soon as I´m in front of a pc with TC on it.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 13, 2013, 10:01:55 AM
OK tried tinypoodle´s suggestion about layers and it only sort of works in that the Firefox window does get bigger but not true full screen, the original alt+tab behaviour I posted about also remains.
Perhaps it all has to do with the tray on the top so next I will experiment with the jwm configs.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: AmatCoder on March 14, 2013, 02:46:27 AM
Using coreplus 4.7.5 and JWM and I notice that using ALT+TAB does not restore open windows which have
been minimised if at least one window is not still showing (has focus).
[...]
Is this a bug or a "feature"?

It's a bug, IMO.
If you left the mouse pointer over task bar, (e.g. over the clock) then ALT-TAB, you can see that it's working now...

JWM doesn't seem catch the release of modifier key when pointer is over X root window.
You can check it: press ALT-TAB (it does not work), then move pointer to task bar and just press&release ALT...The window is restore.


[...]Perhaps there is an option somewhere to make it not always be on top, like an autohide feature.[...]

Add autohide="true" to /home/tc/.jwmrc-tray into tray attributtes as:

Code: [Select]
<JWM>
   <!-- Additional tray attributes: autohide, width, border, layer, layout -->
   <Tray autohide="true" x="0" y="0" height="20">

JWM will need be restarted.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: tinypoodle on March 14, 2013, 03:07:49 AM
JWM doesn't seem catch the release of modifier key when pointer is over X root window.
Uhmm... how is "release" related to ALT-TAB?

Quote
Add autohide="true" to /home/tc/.jwmrc-tray into tray attributtes as:

Code: [Select]
<JWM>
   <!-- Additional tray attributes: autohide, width, border, layer, layout -->
   <Tray autohide="true" x="0" y="0" height="20">

JWM will need be restarted.
That may work as a workaround, but using autohide should by no means be a requirement to get apps into full screen mode.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: AmatCoder on March 14, 2013, 03:58:39 AM
JWM doesn't seem catch the release of modifier key when pointer is over X root window.
Uhmm... how is "release" related to ALT-TAB?

Are you serious?
The key. The key is released. When ALT key is released, window should be restored...
I know that my english is not good enough, but you really do not understand it?

That may work as a workaround, but using autohide should by no means be a requirement to get apps into full screen mode.

Paulo asked for it, and I just point how he can do it... Complain to JWM author.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 14, 2013, 04:25:08 AM
Thank you AmatCoder for your suggestion, I will try it out as soon as I´m in front of my TC pc.
My intention is to make some kiosks based on TC so perhaps the best thing is just to get rid of the tray at the top which would serve no purpose and just gets in the way.
For my TC dev pc, I will try your suggestion.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: tinypoodle on March 14, 2013, 04:25:50 AM
JWM doesn't seem catch the release of modifier key when pointer is over X root window.
Uhmm... how is "release" related to ALT-TAB?

Are you serious?
The key. The key is released. When ALT key is released, window should be restored...
I know that my english is not good enough, but you really do not understand it?
No sorry I don't.
I tested before writing my last post and now again after your response.
Releasing Alt does not seem to have the slightest effect, only pressing.
Releasing Tab results in stopping window cycling only.

Quote
That may work as a workaround, but using autohide should by no means be a requirement to get apps into full screen mode.

Paulo asked for it, and I just point how he can do it... Complain to JWM author.

OP only mentioned Firefox 17 not going fullscreen, that is not enough evidence.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 14, 2013, 04:37:32 AM
Hi tinypoodle
I only mentioned Firefox 17 simply because I wanted to test the full screen facility and as I posted before it does not work as intended, however aterm also does not display a full window if one specifies it via the geometry option.
The dimensions specified in geometry are honoured but the tray obscures it.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: curaga on March 14, 2013, 04:45:31 AM
Is JWM a requirement? Seems some other WM may work better.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: tinypoodle on March 14, 2013, 06:01:48 AM
however aterm also does not display a full window if one specifies it via the geometry option.
The dimensions specified in geometry are honoured but the tray obscures it.
That's different from fullscreen and should exclusively be decided by respective layer numbers.

I did a test, setting my tray level to "12" (max.) but that didn't obstruct fullscreen mode of opera and geany (F 11) at all.

Maybe you could try the jwm-snapshot.tcz extension and see if it behaves differently.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 14, 2013, 06:23:46 AM
@curaga
JWM is not a requirement, I just chose it because it´s light weight, has many config options and I have used it before on other distros.
It also allows for easy changing of the wallpaper.
I am open to suggestions.

@tinypoodle
I will try the snapshot extension and see if it makes it more useable with Firefox in a kiosk application.

EDIT

OK tried everything and the only way to get alt+tab to work when all windows are minimized is to make sure that the mouse pointer is over the tray.
I suspect that this is not so much a bug but rather bad design of jwm.

As for the tray getting in the way of fullscreen apps, using autohide="true" does sort it out.

EDIT 2

Tried PuppyLinux 4.3.1 which also uses jwm but version 2.1 and no problems with alt+tab.
I see that TC uses jwm version 2.1.0 so something has changed or perhaps wbar is "stealing" focus from the tray as when the mouse is over the tray then alt+tab works perfectly.

EDIT 3

OK just nuked wbar and same thing so it´s not that.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: AmatCoder on March 15, 2013, 07:57:13 AM
As far as I know, Puppy Linux uses an old development version...
...but on latest development snapshot ALT-TAB issue is fixed too... (And firefox goes to fullscreen -with F11- nicely, over the task)

EDIT:
ALT-TAB works fine with jwm-snapshot.tcz.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 15, 2013, 10:30:45 AM
Thanks AmatCoder.
Is snapshot something that gets loaded with the existing jwm or does one have to remove jwm first?
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Rich on March 15, 2013, 10:44:52 AM
Hi Paulo
I think you want to use the download option in Apps, then replace jwm.tcz with jwm-snapshot.tcz in your onboot.lst.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: tinypoodle on March 15, 2013, 10:54:46 AM
Files in jwm.tcz and jwm-snapshot.tcz have the same paths, so it might not be easy to switch in a clean way without reboot.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 15, 2013, 11:28:14 AM
OK I think I got it.
Download snapshot
modify onboot.lst
save and reboot.

Thank you.
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: tinypoodle on March 15, 2013, 12:08:44 PM
Oh, BTW you can keep your config files, they should be compatible (not absolutely sure about .jwmrc-theme).
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 15, 2013, 01:07:32 PM
Hooray, all sorted.
jwm-snapshot.tcz did the trick.
Thanks for all the help guys.

Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: tinypoodle on March 16, 2013, 06:49:02 AM
I did some search in change logs, and it looks like the version of jwm-snapshot.tcz as found in repo is 4 years old and predates jwm.tcz by 2 1/2 years.

Rather unexpected that fullscreen would work in the former while not in the latter...
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: Paulo on March 16, 2013, 09:27:03 AM
Hi tinypoodle

Something in the newer version definitely got broken as the old version as per jwm-snapshot works very well
so too does the older jwm found in Puppy Linux 4.3.1

I also noticed that the older jwm has been compiled with more options which the newer version does not have.
If memory serves me correctly, xinerama is one of them.
If you do a jwm -version you will see what I mean.
Perhaps the exclusion of one or some of these options created the problem?
Title: Re: coreplus 4.7.5 using JWM does not restore windows with ALT+TAB
Post by: tinypoodle on March 16, 2013, 11:37:09 AM
I don't believe that xinerama compile option could influence fullscreen in context of a single screen.