Tiny Core Linux
Tiny Core Base => TCB Talk => Topic started by: crankypuss on February 28, 2012, 03:56:13 PM
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Not sure if this is the place to ask newbie questions or not <shrug>.
I'm a long-time developer who's fairly new to Linux. Since mid-December I've tried probably a dozen distros. Currently Ubuntu 11.10 is my workhorse; even if it is fat and slow, it works.
Anyway, TinyCore is clearly the fastest of the bunch, with Puppy a nearly-distant second. I read some stuff about TinyCore using a layered philosophy and I like that, though the info I found wasn't very comlete-seeming.
However, although it boots up quickly and responds quickly, it isn't good for much ootb.
(There are 3 or 4 alternatives in the boot menu but they all seem to do the same thing, I'm not sure what's up with that.)
I think the first thing I need is to find out how to configure my Verizon broadband modem since it's my only network access. I went into the network configuration applet and there was no obvious way to get it to detect a modem so I could configure it. (Presumably once I get connected I'll be able to add some packages like a browser and so forth.)
Is there some easter-egg that I haven't found, or just what is the trick to getting it to detect the modem so I can configure it and get connected? Do I need to know some magic incantations?
Once I get connected I'm going to want to get set up for doing-work (PHP, local apache, gcc, gdb, ddd, that kind of stuff). If that's too outrageous to expect of TC, please just shoot me now.
The backup stuff was completely non-intuitive, I'm not willing to guess what to enter and just let 'er rip. You guys might need to add some documentation to that purty user-interface, y'think?
If I get TC configured the way I want it, will I have to do that over again when I install it on my hard-drive?
Thanks, apologies if this is the wrong place, etc etc.
p.s., Is there some way to get the forum software not to generate fixed-width pages that are a lot wider than my screen, some parameter I can set?
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Heyho and welcome to Tiny Core! :)
I may not be able to answer all of your questions, but some suggestions:
1. If you're using and developing much data, you could add the boot code home=sda1 to your boot loader kernel line, which will use a home folder on the first partition of the first hard disk recognized. No need to backup any things in your home folder then (which is basically /home/tc/).
2. To save extensions on your hard drive you should set the tce=sda1 boot code as well. This way downloaded extensions will be loaded from the disk.
3. If you want to make other settings persistent, e.g. setting an own password for user tc it's quite simple: sudo passwd tc, enter the new password, add etc/shadow and etc/passwd to /opt/.filetool.lst and run "Backup". The Backup procedure is necessary because the whole operating system runs in RAM, which is one of the advantages of Tiny Core. It will always be the same after a reboot unless you configure the backup to change anything ;)
(btw. most of those topics are explained better in the wiki)
4. A "basic" Tiny Core installation doesn't consist of many files. You got the kernel (vmlinuz), the Init RAM disk (core.gz), some boot loader stuff (like grub/menu.lst e.g.) and additionally a tce/ folder with extensions, a home/ folder with your private data if you wish and a backup file called mydata.tgz. If you copy all that to your "installation" hard disk, it's quite the same like having it on an USB key and it will work too. So no need to start over and over again. You could start with an USB key, copy everything to the hard disk at some point and install the boot loader (this is indeed necessary to make the hard disk bootable).
5. For PHP you could use the php5.tcz or the apache2-mod-php5.tcz extensions, for C/C++ use the compiletc.tcz extension. Both should allow you to start developing immediately.
6. I don't have a clue about Verizon broadband, but it's probably circling around the topics PPP and USB serial. Try to search the forum, there were multiple entries and some solutions (basically it's like in every other Linux Distro in Tiny Core, you just need the proper extensions, e.g. the one that contains the pppd program or something like pppsetup).
7. @Out-of-the-box: That's right. Out-of-the-box means at least several hundred MBs installed on some real hard disk, because you have to support everything like Verizon broadband ;-). Tiny Core is a toolkit, it's not a turn key distro. Once you have all the "tools" (=extensions), you probably have the minimum necessary and also the fastest OS for your machine.
8. Forum-fixed-width: Could you tell me the browser and the OS you're using? It's not a special setting, on every browser I use (chrome, firefox, opera) it's reducing its width automatically to fit the screen. If anyone else is having this problem, please report.
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As network access is your first hurdle lets focus on this initially. I obviously have no clue about how Verizon provisions their broadband service in your area. But generally speaking if you have a ("dumb") modem you often are provided with the necessary details.
I for one use a cable modem and have been given by my ISP a fixed IP address, the gateway and DNS server details. A long time ago before I had a (wireless) router connected to that cable modem I had to enter those details in the respective network adaptor configuration of the OS running on the single computer which was directly connected to that modem. Nowadays these details are configured in the router and all clients are using DHCP to connect to the router which then lets them use the broadband connection.
So unless we know more precisely how your ISP provides you with the service we'll be a bit out of luck to give you more direct answers. Assuming that you've so far used a Windows system you might be able to look up the properties of the 'Internet protocol (TCP/IP)' item in the properties of the network adaptor connected to your modem. Knowing those details would probably go a long way in trying to help you configure TC for using your broadband modem.
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Hi crankypuss
I have Verizon. Both their DSL and broadband modems act as gateways and default to 192.1681.1.
Plug in network cable, open up Control Panel and click on the Network button. Enter the following:
eth0
Use DHCP=no
IP Address=192.168.1.27
Network Mask=255.255.255.0
Broadcast=192.168.1.255
Gateway=192.168.1.1
NameServers=192.168.1.1Adjust the IP Address if necessary. Click Apply and Exit, then try the ifconfig command in a terminal to confirm
the address was assigned to your network card. Next start AppBrowser and click on Connect. The left pane
should become populated with applications.
Control Panel is the icon with the screwdriver. AppBrowser is the icon with the blue arrow pointing down.
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1. If you're using and developing much data, you could add the boot code home=sda1 to your boot loader kernel line, which will use a home folder on the first partition of the first hard disk recognized. No need to backup any things in your home folder then (which is basically /home/tc/).
I have my system set up so that my data is separate from the operating system. I have 3 partitions for different kinds of data that is not operating system dependent. Each is mounted on top of dummy directories in /home/me. So basically all that is in my /home directory is whatever it takes to set up a usable interface on that operating system... whatever partition is booted from my real data is always the same and backed up separately. Once I get tc installed on a hard disk partition and get enough tools installed to work with it, all I have to do is update /etc/fstab to point to my data partitions and I'm in business.
I have no idea what you mean by "you could add the boot code home=sda1 to your boot loader kernel line". I don't know where "boot loader kernel line" lives, I'm not even sure whether tc uses lilo or grub or grub2, or if you are talking about something in their configuration data, or something entirely different. Sorry, new to Linux as of mid-December 2011.
2. To save extensions on your hard drive you should set the tce=sda1 boot code as well. This way downloaded extensions will be loaded from the disk.
Uh... okay, I guess I will maybe figure out what that means later. First I need to get my modem working, second I need to get tc installed on a hard disk partition. What kind of partition is best, ext4? I currently have 2 partitions reserved for operating systems, but only 4GB each, does that sound like enough for tc + development tools + browser/mail tools?
3. If you want to make other settings persistent, e.g. setting an own password for user tc it's quite simple: sudo passwd tc, enter the new password, add etc/shadow and etc/passwd to /opt/.filetool.lst and run "Backup". The Backup procedure is necessary because the whole operating system runs in RAM, which is one of the advantages of Tiny Core. It will always be the same after a reboot unless you configure the backup to change anything ;)
I hope I can find this in the wiki. Best place to go to get oriented to the tc way of doing things?
4. A "basic" Tiny Core installation doesn't consist of many files. You got the kernel (vmlinuz), the Init RAM disk (core.gz), some boot loader stuff (like grub/menu.lst e.g.) and additionally a tce/ folder with extensions, a home/ folder with your private data if you wish and a backup file called mydata.tgz. If you copy all that to your "installation" hard disk, it's quite the same like having it on an USB key and it will work too. So no need to start over and over again. You could start with an USB key, copy everything to the hard disk at some point and install the boot loader (this is indeed necessary to make the hard disk bootable).
Already have 2 partitions that are Linux and bootable, if I run one of them and customize grub2 it will probably (maybe...) add tc to the boot menu. But I have to take this slow and one step at a time, no Linux expert.
5. For PHP you could use the php5.tcz or the apache2-mod-php5.tcz extensions, for C/C++ use the compiletc.tcz extension. Both should allow you to start developing immediately.
Excellent, will need to look at those to see what extensions they include like mod_ncurses and so forth.
6. I don't have a clue about Verizon broadband, but it's probably circling around the topics PPP and USB serial. Try to search the forum, there were multiple entries and some solutions (basically it's like in every other Linux Distro in Tiny Core, you just need the proper extensions, e.g. the one that contains the pppd program or something like pppsetup).
Looks like another poster has provided some clues for that.
7. @Out-of-the-box: That's right. Out-of-the-box means at least several hundred MBs installed on some real hard disk, because you have to support everything like Verizon broadband ;-). Tiny Core is a toolkit, it's not a turn key distro. Once you have all the "tools" (=extensions), you probably have the minimum necessary and also the fastest OS for your machine.
Understand, my feeling is that base system should consist of enough to install itself and provide tools to back itself up and obtain/install selected apps, sounds like just the way tc is doing it.
8. Forum-fixed-width: Could you tell me the browser and the OS you're using? It's not a special setting, on every browser I use (chrome, firefox, opera) it's reducing its width automatically to fit the screen. If anyone else is having this problem, please report.
Operating system is Ubuntu 11.10, browser is Firefox 10.0.2
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I have Verizon. Both their DSL and broadband modems act as gateways and default to 192.1681.1.
Plug in network cable, open up Control Panel and click on the Network button. Enter the following:
Looks like just the ticket. I will get my nameserver ipaddrs from /etc/resolv.conf on current Ubuntu system. Don't see anyplace to put the dialing of #777 though, some kind of ATDT#777 if I recall correctly?
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What kind of partition is best, ext4? I currently have 2 partitions reserved for operating systems, but only 4GB each, does that sound like enough for tc + development tools + browser/mail tools?
Ext4, and tc+compiletc takes under 100mb. So if you give it a gig or two, should be enough for half the repo ;)
On your network, please be more specific. Saying "Verizon broadband" could mean anything from DSL to 3g to satellite to connecting via your phone. Rich's advice only stands for DSL, and perhaps PPPoE.
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The '#777'' dial-in number points in my experience towards a 3G USB modem. So I'd suggest to use the search function of this forum as there have been already several threads related to this subject.
If my hunch is correct, I'd do a lsusb -v whilst running Ubuntu to check for all the details related to USB devices. Furthermore the demsg output could come in handy, and finally take a copy of all the configuration files under '/etc/pppd' from Ubuntu as probably a lot can be learned from those when setting up things in TC.
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The '#777'' dial-in number points in my experience towards a 3G USB modem. So I'd suggest to use the search function of this forum as there have been already several threads related to this subject.
Did that. Found many references not helping much. One reference said to install ModemManager. I am guessing that ModemManager is the answer. How come that isn't part of the base install? How is anybody whose only access to the internet is through a modem going to get there from here?
If my hunch is correct, I'd do a lsusb -v whilst running Ubuntu to check for all the details related to USB devices. Furthermore the demsg output could come in handy, and finally take a copy of all the configuration files under '/etc/pppd' from Ubuntu as probably a lot can be learned from those when setting up things in TC.
When Ubuntu installed it came up and said "hey, found a broadband modem, who's your provider" and after telling it Verizon it "just worked".
So what do you suggest, is there a way to download this ModemManager thing while in Ubuntu then boot TC and install it from disk?
The base install really should contain everything necessary to get a guy from an ISO file burned to a USB stick to bigtime, shouldn't it? Or are newbies expected to mesmerize up some arcane line commands?
Heh, that sounds pretty cranky, sorry 'bout that. <g>
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Hi crankypuss
The two Verizon modems I've dealt with are:
1. About the size of a pack of cigarettes with 3 lights, 4 connectors, On/Off switch, and reset button. (DSL)
2. About 6" X 10" x 1", rounded edges, 6 to 8 lights, about 6 connectors, antenna on back. (FIOS)
If one of those describes your modem, and:
1. your computer connects to it with a CAT5 network cable, my instructions should work for you.
2. your computer connects to it with a USB cable, switch to a CAT5 network cable.
You mentioned #777 but did not say where this came from or where it is used.
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The two Verizon modems I've dealt with are:
<snip>
You mentioned #777 but did not say where this came from or where it is used.
This one is about 2-1/2" tall, 3/4" wide, maybe 3/8" thick. One light. USB connector folds out. It's a PANTECH something-or-other.
The #777 is what I used to set it up under Puppy. If I remember correctly the sequence is ATDT#777. The #777 is what it dials to hook up to the nearest cell tower. It's 3g.
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Hi crankypuss
Alright, what I said doesn't apply. Looks like you have what maro was referring to.
This link looks like it should provide enough information to get it working:
http://kkinder.com/using-verizon-wireless-evdo-pc5740-and-linux/ (http://kkinder.com/using-verizon-wireless-evdo-pc5740-and-linux/)
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We might be getting closer with this, but a computer does not care about the size of a USB gadget or what name might be painted on the box. What matters are cold, hard facts (like what vendor and product ID it can find about a device so that it might be able to identify the correct device driver).
Whilst the page referenced in reply #11 might be helpful I'd consider it absolutely vital to know for sure which device is actually connected. Therefore I have to repeat what I've already had suggested in reply #7: Can we PLEASE be shown the output of at least lsusb -v when your system is running on Ubuntu (or Puppy). Please attach this output here (it might be several screens full of information, so use 'lsusb -v > lsusb.log' and rather attach that file here).
My hunch is that you'll need at the very least the 'pppd.tcz' extension. On top of it another extension might be needed as driver for your device. It then depends how much "comfort" you'll require to create the PPP configuration. That can range from no further extension if all can be done by learning from your Ubuntu or Puppy setup, to about three additional extensions if you choose to use 'wxdial', to ca. 30 extensions to use 'NetworkManager'.
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Hi maro
You are absolutely correct, getting the vendor and product IDs is vital. I'll defer to you since you obviously
have some experience with these types of devices.
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Whilst the page referenced in reply #11 might be helpful
It might be helpful to you, but it wasn't at all helpful to me. With Ubuntu there was nothing to be done, with Puppy it was a matter of typing in a control string and a phone number. Here we are talking about somehow magically installing extensions that imo ought to have been in the base install from the go. I guess TC must be set up for people on a wired connection or something.
I'd consider it absolutely vital to know for sure which device is actually connected. Therefore I have to repeat what I've already had suggested in reply #7: Can we PLEASE be shown the output of at least lsusb -v when your system is running on Ubuntu (or Puppy). Please attach this output here (it might be several screens full of information, so use 'lsusb -v > lsusb.log' and rather attach that file here).
Theoretically I've attached it.
My hunch is that you'll need at the very least the 'pppd.tcz' extension. On top of it another extension might be needed as driver for your device. It then depends how much "comfort" you'll require to create the PPP configuration. That can range from no further extension if all can be done by learning from your Ubuntu or Puppy setup, to about three additional extensions if you choose to use 'wxdial', to ca. 30 extensions to use 'NetworkManager'.
Around 30 extensions? Somehow that makes me wonder how serious TC is about things.
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Quick reply before I go to bed: So your modem is a Pantech UM175 for the EVDO network of Verizon (and not the newer Pantech UML 290 for their LTE network as I had previously speculated). I've only had time for a very cursory search, and I'm therefore not yet 100% sure whether it needs the 'usb-modeswitch.tcz' extension or not (with a current hunch that it won't require it). In any case I'm rather optimistic that it should be possible to get away with only a very small number of required extensions.
My count of ca. 30 extensions for NetworkManager was anyway far too low, as NetworkManager needs to operate within a DE like LXDE or Gnome for it's GUI to be usable. Which means that far more extensions would be needed. But in any case I'd see myself unfit to provide assistance with such a "monstrosity".
Finally I see the need to point out that a 12 MBytes download like TC can not possibly support all potential networking modes "out of the box". That is one of the reasons why Puppy weights in with ca. 129 MBytes and Ubuntu with ca. 695 MBytes. In this case of "you get what you pay for" the first target of TC are ethernet connected systems (which are still IMHO the vast majority of users) and more support (e.g. for WiFi) comes with the CorePlus "edition".
My plan for tomorrow would be to give you some guidance how you can make use of your working Puppy configuration (which IIRC uses 'wvdial'). It would be therefore good to know which Puppy release you have been using.
If you can't wait: try to google it yourself, as there are several other people who have used your modem and 'wvdial' on the Verizon network (e.g. here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=985611)). In theory you'll require the following extensions: pppd.tcz (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz/pppd.tcz), wvdial.tcz (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz/wvdial.tcz), libssl-0.9.8.tcz (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz/libssl-0.9.8.tcz), and wvstreams.tcz (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz/wvstreams.tcz) (plus a dependency file (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz/wvdial.tcz.dep)).
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Quick reply before I go to bed: So your modem is a Pantech UM175 for the EVDO network of Verizon (and not the newer Pantech UML 290 for their LTE network as I had previously speculated). I've only had time for a very cursory search, and I'm therefore not yet 100% sure whether it needs the 'usb-modeswitch.tcz' extension or not (with a current hunch that it won't require it). In any case I'm rather optimistic that it should be possible to get away with only a very small number of required extensions.
My count of ca. 30 extensions for NetworkManager was anyway far too low, as NetworkManager needs to operate within a DE like LXDE or Gnome for it's GUI to be usable. Which means that far more extensions would be needed. But in any case I'd see myself unfit to provide assistance with such a "monstrosity".
Finally I see the need to point out that a 12 MBytes download like TC can not possibly support all potential networking modes "out of the box". That is one of the reasons why Puppy weights in with ca. 129 MBytes and Ubuntu with ca. 695 MBytes. In this case of "you get what you pay for" the first target of TC are ethernet connected systems (which are still IMHO the vast majority of users) and more support (e.g. for WiFi) comes with the CorePlus "edition".
I'm not sure how to reply to that. Let me just state the opinion that a serious operating system ought to be no larger and no smaller than required to backup and restore itself and to connect to whatever repository or medium contains additional functionality. I think Puppy contains more than it needs to, and TinyCore perhaps less... and Ubuntu is nothing less than a fat slow pig. I've been looking at distros for two months now, and TinyCore is the one I feel has the most potential. It's also the fastest to boot, with Puppy coming in a fairly distant second. But booting isn't enough if you can't get to the goodies, eh? <g>
(I'm also puzzled that Puppy is the *only* distro around that seems able to 'reboot' my system, an Acer D257 netbook, including TC and Ubuntu... although when I first installed Ubuntu both 'reboot' and 'hibernate' worked... still tracking that one down.)
My plan for tomorrow would be to give you some guidance how you can make use of your working Puppy configuration (which IIRC uses 'wvdial'). It would be therefore good to know which Puppy release you have been using.
If you can't wait: try to google it yourself, as there are several other people who have used your modem and 'wvdial' on the Verizon network (e.g. here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=985611)). In theory you'll require the following extensions: pppd.tcz (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz/pppd.tcz), wvdial.tcz (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz/wvdial.tcz), libssl-0.9.8.tcz (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz/libssl-0.9.8.tcz), and wvstreams.tcz (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz/wvstreams.tcz) (plus a dependency file (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz/wvdial.tcz.dep)).
I'm not in a great hurry, I'm able to use Ubuntu to do everything I need to do, as long as I don't mind scratching my ear with my elbow. I'm not sure how we're going to bootstrap this modem into operating without the appropriate extensions, but I'm more of a bits'n'bytes developer than anyone who has spent a great deal of time installing anything. I have the latest stable Puppy, 5.2.8.
I would suggest that someone consider just how large an initial iso would really need to be in order to really do the setup job and make a decision; maybe that's already been done. Maybe if it's too big, what you need is a leaner setup program, something fullscreen character mode perhaps.
I'll check back in the morning, probably between 0700-0900 UTC, but as I said I'm in no great hurry, I've half a dozen projects on the fire but none are urgent. Thanks for your continued efforts.
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I'm not sure how to reply to that. Let me just state the opinion that a serious operating system ought to be no larger and no smaller than required to backup and restore itself and to connect to whatever repository or medium contains additional functionality.
You have to draw the line somewhere. What about 56k winmodems? What about satellite, serial, infrared, bluetooth connections? Maybe someone needs token ring to connect.
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I'm not sure how to reply to that. Let me just state the opinion that a serious operating system ought to be no larger and no smaller than required to backup and restore itself and to connect to whatever repository or medium contains additional functionality.
You have to draw the line somewhere. What about 56k winmodems? What about satellite, serial, infrared, bluetooth connections? Maybe someone needs token ring to connect.
Sure, lines have to be drawn somewhere. There are devices you'll consider too obsolete to support at all... I'm not sure how long it's been since I've held a floppy disk in my hand, or even seen one.
On the other hand, if there's a network device you choose to support at all, (and I would think "generic modem" might fit into that category,) then it seems (to me) that such support ought to be in the base, even if that means that the option of offloading the support needs to be available once the user has gotten connected.
It's a decision, decisions get made for varying reasons, people react to them in various ways, and in the end everything pretty much works out one way or another.
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A 3g usb modem is not really a "generic modem"; it quite often requires driver support, just like the 56k winmodems. Possibly firmware, and a list of unique settings for that account type/provider combo.
Modems in general are supported in a "the programs needed are in the repo" way, it is a rather messy can of worms. Though if you can come up with an easy to use, low overhead modem wizard that works for most types, we'd love to include it in CorePlus.
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A 3g usb modem is not really a "generic modem"; it quite often requires driver support, just like the 56k winmodems. Possibly firmware, and a list of unique settings for that account type/provider combo.
Modems in general are supported in a "the programs needed are in the repo" way, it is a rather messy can of worms. Though if you can come up with an easy to use, low overhead modem wizard that works for most types, we'd love to include it in CorePlus.
Oddly enough, Puppy was quite able to handle it as a "generic modem".
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I recently started using mobile broadband.
There is no easy way to set up a connection in Tinycore.
I am now using Linux Mint, as it can be set up very easily with Linux Mint.
I think mobile broadband will become the most used of any type of internet connection in the future. I think someone involved in Tinycore should work on an easy way to connect mobile broadband.
The app used to connect in Linux Mint is Network Manager.
The person who made the Network Manager extension in Tinycore is away on military service, and is temporarily unable to contribute.
Network Manager does not work for connecting mobile broadband in Tinycore.
There are dependencies missing.
I experimented for some time, and found by installing additional extensions, I was able to get more features working. But was unable to get it to work completely.
I don't have unlimited time, so I now use Linux Mint.
If anyone wants to contribute, you can purchase a prepaid mobile broadband usb quite inexpensively, and see what you can do to get it working.
You can download apps on another operating system, and copy them over to Tinycore. You need all dependencies. See the wiki on installing apps for a full explanation.
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Oddly enough, Puppy was quite able to handle it as a "generic modem".
Because it included the specific drivers, and your modem did not require firmware or other tricks. I'm not sure what's unclear?
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Oddly enough, Puppy was quite able to handle it as a "generic modem".
Because it included the specific drivers, and your modem did not require firmware or other tricks. I'm not sure what's unclear?
What's unclear is how to tell TC the same information that Puppy made easy to input and Ubuntu just figured out on its own.
I'm not sure what the deal is here. I've tried the 12m download and the coreplus 64m download and neither one offers any way whatsoever to configure a terminal as far as I can tell. It has a "network manager" or whatever it's called in the control panel that apparently only knows about ethernet.
I'm not sure what's unclear. How do you get this marvelously small and fast operating system to configure a simple modem? Or is it intended to be useless unless you are in an office with a wired ethernet connection? In my situation it appears to be glorious but not good for much. Am I wasting my time here?
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None of the isos we offer have built-in modem support currently, because none of us have modems, and nobody has contributed support for such.
How do you get this marvelously small and fast operating system to configure a simple modem?
By installing the required extensions. The bare minimum would be pppd and usb-serial, Puppy-equivalent would be those+wvdial+some gui, and the Ubuntu one network manager + the provider database with their huge amount of dependencies.
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For everyone who posts something on this forum, there are many who don't say anything, and just move to another distro.
Tinycore is excluding a large group of would-be users.
I repeat: If anyone wants to contribute, you can purchase a prepaid mobile broadband usb quite inexpensively, and see what you can do to get it working.
When you have it working, share so everyone can benefit.
I know there are a few who have gone through a complex process, and have it working. After reading their posts, and experimenting, I was unable to get mine working.
There needs to be something which is simple and easy for everyone.
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None of the isos we offer have built-in modem support currently, because none of us have modems, and nobody has contributed support for such.
Okay, that's a straight-up answer that I can respect. Both TC and Puppy are GPL'ed, aren't they? I'd think that theoretically TC could use the same code as Puppy. But I'm in the same boat on this that you folks are, I don't know much about modems.
How do you get this marvelously small and fast operating system to configure a simple modem?
By installing the required extensions. The bare minimum would be pppd and usb-serial, Puppy-equivalent would be those+wvdial+some gui, and the Ubuntu one network manager + the provider database with their huge amount of dependencies.
That seems like a fairly classic Catch-22. Or at least it wants to look like one. Didn't you just get done saying there's no support for modems in any of the ISOs? The obvious solution is to add something somewhere. The CorePlus ISO seemed to have a lot of "stuff" preinstalled, like FireFox which is an amazing space-hog.
Well, I'm not going to bother trying to get you guys to do what makes sense to me, TC is "free" software right, so you're doing what makes sense to you. I'll see if I can find the TC source code, according to the GPL is right there available with the binaries (ISOs) so it shouldn't be hard to find.
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I think the Puppy modem stuff is still in the development stage, and does not work in all situations. If you used it you would need to improve it. Unless you are using a different version of Puppy than me.
I think it would not be difficult to get network manager working in Tinycore. It partly works, but needs several dependencies added. I gave up trying to find them all. This would be the quickest solution.
If somebody want to develop a smaller app for modems, that could be done later.
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Does anyone know a way to capture exactly what is being sent over the internet?
If this can be done, you could capture what is being sent when connecting to the internet. This could then be used in a smaller app.
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Does anyone know a way to capture exactly what is being sent over the internet?
If this can be done, you could capture what is being sent when connecting to the internet. This could then be used in a smaller app.
There are many tools, for example WireShark. But regarding modems it doesn't help to catch modem commands sent from PC. Modems are speaking HAYES AT command set usually with some product specific extra commands. But basically a modem is an easy to handly device via serial interface. Try to find command set of your modem (ususally it is documented) and try it. After some experiments you can script it easy. Regarding serial interface I'm using Python but it is a personal preference.
The issue is with WIN modems. They are reall dumb devices with no serial interface, all functions implemented by the WINDOWS driver. This is where the problem is, specially with built-in onboard modems.
While I do not have such device, guess USB +G sticks for example using an USB serial and it must we not so hard to use.
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HI there: Win modems and Linux almost drove me crazy a few years ago. I gave up on it.
I bought external RS 232 modems for a few bucks at the swap meets. They all worked perfect.
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With the usb 3g sticks the issue is that many need weird tricks, and some need firmware.
For example, until someone created the driver support for the early Huawei sticks, you needed to send a stick-specific command to the right device (there were three) and after that run usb-modeswitch with the right options. Not quite user-friendly.
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Hi crankypuss
On the off chance that your goal is to get your modem working, see post #4 by Mikebat:
http://www.evdoforums.com/thread9995.html (http://www.evdoforums.com/thread9995.html)
or post #3 by DLinn in the link provided by maro:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=985611 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=985611)
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Hi crankypuss
On the off chance that your goal is to get your modem working,
I'd like to get it working under TC, yes. It already works under Ubuntu and Puppy.
see post #4 by Mikebat:
http://www.evdoforums.com/thread9995.html (http://www.evdoforums.com/thread9995.html)
or post #3 by DLinn in the link provided by maro:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=985611 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=985611)
Both of those use wvdial, right? Are you saying that wvdial is included in the TC iso? I didn't see any signs of it but didn't try "which" either. Next time I have TC booted I'll see if it's there.
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Hi crankypuss
It's not in the TC ISO and I don't know if it's in the CorePlus ISO. I do know you have other means to achieve your
goal. Take a thumb drive that has a FAT or FAT32 file system on it and download the extensions you need to it.
You can do this by either booting Tinycore on a wired machine or by pointing your browser to:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz (http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz)
and downloading:
libssl-0.9.8.tcz
pppd.tcz
wvdial.tcz
wvstreams.tcz
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Its not that simple.
You need to download all dep files and dependencies. Then you need to put apps in OnBoot.
Once installed you need to set them up manually, which requires you to know exactly what commands to type in. It is likely to take a lot of experimentation to get them to work, if you are able to get them to work at all.
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Hi Guy
Yes, he should also get wvdial.tcz.dep and put wvdial.tcz in his onboot.lst.
That should be enough to load wvdial.tcz and its dependencies when he boots.
Both maro and I supplied links to instructions for setting up a Pantech UM175.
So now its his choice, try to make use of this information, or continue the conversation on how Tinycore
doesn't do everything bigger distros do.
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Modems are speaking HAYES AT command set usually with some product specific extra commands. But basically a modem is an easy to handly device via serial interface. Try to find command set of your modem (ususally it is documented) and try it. After some experiments you can script it easy. Regarding serial interface I'm using Python but it is a personal preference.
Well there's the problem. It's not hard to find out what commands are needed, I think all I had to tell Puppy was "ATDT#777" (might be misremembering), I think all the authentication is done by the hardware within the modem, there's some kind of cellphone id associated with the modem that gets exchanged with the tower.
The problem is that I don't know what to *DO* with the HAYES commands that are needed. Ubuntu just came up and said "found a broadband modem, who's your provider" and offered a list that included Verizon. Puppy offered a place to type the HAYES command string and to enter the userid/password, which I think isn't really needed (Ubuntu never asked) but had to be nonblank.
So having the information is not the issue. It's knowing what to *do* with it that's the problem. Presumably there's some Linux command to issue that takes the information and uses it to connect. But I have no clue how to use a line command to connect a modem, or even what line command to look at with man.
So I'm asking here, and what I get is some kind of "30 extensions are needed" thing, which probably has to do with onboard winmodems and not serial modems at all, I feel like I've landed in Brazil or something and can't speak the language. Someone pointed me at another post about some "wvwire" command which is apparently another extension because my Ubuntu system has no man pages for wvwire.
So if I was going to script the connection, doesn't matter what language, bash, whatever... there's some Linux command the script would have to issue to cause the dialup and presumably activate some pretty basic monitoring, right? What is it?
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So if I was going to script the connection, doesn't matter what language, bash, whatever... there's some Linux command the script would have to issue to cause the dialup and presumably activate some pretty basic monitoring, right? What is it?
Quoting myself:
The bare minimum would be pppd and usb-serial
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I've been silent for a few days as I had some other stuff to do, but not much seems to have changed in the last 20+ posts in this thread: Some of the "usual suspects" are offering advice (repeating themselves and each other), but the OP seems to be a bit too timid to "put his little toe in the water" (or might be still waiting for a "shrink-wrapped" solution, which I suspect won't materialise).
It might be that the OP does not realise that it needs to be an iterative process of taking a step and reporting back here the exact steps undertaken and their outcome. Failing to pick up on basically any of the earlier suggestions does certainly not help to move things forward.
To provide us with some better understanding (e.g. whether any kernel modules are needed and the wvdial / ppp settings used by Puppy) I'd suggest to boot into Puppy 5.2.8 (with the modem attached and 3G networking configured and working OK) and run
lsmod > lsmod ; dmesg > dmesg ; tar czf puppy_settings.tgz -C /etc wvdial* ppp
Then attach those three files here as attachments.
EDIT:As I was checking out something else I've now stumbled over a way to confirm with a high degree of probability that in this case for a device with 'idVendor 0x106c' and 'idProduct 0x3714' (as found in the attachment to reply #14) the 'qcaux' kernel module included in usb-serial-3.0.3-tinycore.tcz (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/tcz/usb-serial-3.0.3-tinycore.tcz) (assuming a TC 4.x system prior to 4.4rc1) will be required.
BTW, the command I used was tc@box:~$ grep -i v0*106c[dp]0*3714 /lib/modules/3.0.21-tinycore/modules.*
/lib/modules/3.0.21-tinycore/modules.alias:alias usb:v106Cp3714d*dc*dsc*dp*icFFisc00ip00* qcaux
tc@box:~$Prior to the installation of the 'usb-serial-3.0.3-tinycore.tcz' extension no match was found. This might lessen the need for the 'lsmod' and 'dmesg' output from the Puppy system. OTOH I certainly believe that a bit more information in the process of troubleshooting can't do any harm.
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Hi all,
since I want a quick way of getting to the internet for mail and perhaps a browse or two
I will either install TC or the minimalistic Ubuntu
I tend to use IXConn as a broadband connector and it works fine. You may have to set up a user under su and dip
sort of
sudo adduser xxxx dialout
newgrp dialout
sudo adduser xxxx dip
newgrp dip
Since I have to do it myself I will report back on how easy or difficult it was