General TC > General TC Talk
Wayland
hiro:
--- Quote from: pq5190362 on December 18, 2016, 01:58:44 PM ---Any update on Wayland?
The GNOME 3 Wayland session is really impressive, very smooth tear-free experience with much less lag than X11.
--- End quote ---
please show me how to introduce that "lag" visibly so i can reproduce this.
pq5190362:
--- Quote from: hiro on December 21, 2016, 09:43:40 AM ---
--- Quote from: pq5190362 on December 18, 2016, 01:58:44 PM ---The GNOME 3 Wayland session is really impressive, very smooth tear-free experience with much less lag than X11.
--- End quote ---
please show me how to introduce that "lag" visibly so i can reproduce this.
--- End quote ---
Easy:
Start GNOME 3 @ X (with Mutter as the hardware accelerated compositing window manager incl. Vsync). Now open a window and place the mouse cursor on the window titlebar and click and hold the left mouse button and move the mouse around to move the window around. As you can see, the mouse cursor is faster than the window movement, i.e. there's some kind of input/rendering/drawing lag.
This will also be true and in many cases even worse than GNOME 3 with other X shells using compositing window managers. Take XFCE4 + Compton for example. Running XFCE4 with Compton results in proper VSync (unlike xfwm4). However, there's some huge input lag. In this case, the window movement is even much slower than the mouse cursor (compared to GNOME 3 @ X). So XFCE4 + Compton is an even better example.
In comparison:
Start GNOME 3 @ Wayland and do the same (i.e. move a window around). You will see that the mouse cursor and window movement is in perfect sync and it feels much less laggy and rock solid.
The same is also true for running Wayland @ Weston.
With Wayland there's no tearing and not such a lag as mentioned above. With Wayland it feels as good as with Windows Vista/7/8/8.1/10 @ DWM.
If you want to try out the GNOME 3 @ Wayland session, you can boot up the latest Fedora Rawhide live session:
https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/development/rawhide/Workstation/x86_64/iso/
If you want to try out Wayland @ Weston, you can boot up the latest RebeccaBlackOS live session:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/rebeccablackos/
Let's hope that will stop you from posting pointless comments such as those:
--- Quote from: hiro on December 21, 2016, 09:42:55 AM ---what's the point of wayland?
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: hiro on December 10, 2016, 05:28:17 AM ---it's a usual tactic i observe in open source projects: tell all slightly-related projects that the other competing projects are better. they don't look at why or care about any technicalities. they just think they do it for the greater good, that people will get back to work and then make more useful software (i.e. support their crappy feature request), cause all that was needed for greatness is their friendly encouragement.
--- End quote ---
:)
pq5190362:
--- Quote from: pq5190362 on December 21, 2016, 10:28:52 AM ---If you want to try out the GNOME 3 @ Wayland session, you can boot up the latest Fedora Rawhide live session:
https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/development/rawhide/Workstation/x86_64/iso/
If you want to try out Wayland @ Weston, you can boot up the latest RebeccaBlackOS live session:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/rebeccablackos/
--- End quote ---
Looks like there's no live ISO in the Rawhide folder at the moment for some reason, so you can also simply use the live ISO of the latest release version, since Wayland is already the default for Fedora since Fedora 25:
x86:
https://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/25/Workstation/i386/iso/
x86_64:
https://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/25/Workstation/x86_64/iso/
;)
curaga:
--- Quote from: pq5190362 on December 21, 2016, 07:00:14 AM ---Which topics?
--- End quote ---
Please do a search for "wayland".
--- Quote ---Please name the size, ideally in comparision.
--- End quote ---
I am not going to do the work of making a Wayland iso. As you're the one interested in it, the onus is on you to do so. Without a comparable ISO there can't be byte-exact numbers.
--- Quote ---Wayland and Weston can be run with software rendering since v1.1:
--- End quote ---
Yes. It still requires KMS, and more importantly, the *client* apps still require GL, ie mesa. There may be clients that can fall back to software rendering, but the majority will only support GL on Wayland.
--- Quote ---Which dependencies?
--- End quote ---
KMS, libinput, mesa, others. I doubt you can get the lag-free experience using software rendering only.
pq5190362:
--- Quote from: curaga on December 21, 2016, 12:01:33 PM ---Please do a search for "wayland".
--- End quote ---
I did (before posting here). Both via the forum search as well as via a well known search engine. And the only threads that came up did not discuss those topics, but see for yourself:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,15228.0.html
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,16026.0.html
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,17361.0.html
:)
So, that being said, I used this thread to ask for an update, since it seemed to be the first thread on this forum where someone asked for Wayland.
--- Quote from: curaga on December 21, 2016, 12:01:33 PM ---Without a comparable ISO there can't be byte-exact numbers.
--- End quote ---
So, you're arguing without knowing the numbers...
I do not know the numbers either. But I guess it could still be kept quite small when using Weston instead of using a full fledged desktop environment. To quote freedesktop.org: "The Weston compositor is a minimal and fast compositor and is suitable for many embedded and mobile use cases."
--- Quote from: curaga on December 21, 2016, 12:01:33 PM ---Yes. It still requires KMS
--- End quote ---
And how's that an issue? Intel/AMD/NVIDIA hardware, they are all supporting KMS, at least with the open source drivers.
--- Quote from: curaga on December 21, 2016, 12:01:33 PM ---the majority will only support GL on Wayland.
--- End quote ---
Which Intel/AMD/NVIDIA hardware supports out of the box when using the open source drivers as far as I know.
--- Quote from: curaga on December 21, 2016, 12:01:33 PM ---KMS, libinput, mesa, others. I doubt you can get the lag-free experience using software rendering only.
--- End quote ---
I doubt software rendering is required when using open source drivers on Intel/AMD/NVIDIA hardware, which is probably being used by the majority of users in the (almost) year 2017 :).
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