General TC > Tiny Core on Virtual Machines
Virtual or Real
roberts:
It is still cheaper to lose the cost of burning one cd than to buy even a used computer.
Don't ignore what is already provided in Core, the usbinstall script sets up the pendrive without the hassles of trying to do so with Windows utilities.
JoXo009:
--- Quote from: roberts on January 03, 2010, 01:50:50 PM ---... sets up the pendrive without the hassles of ... Windows utilities.
--- End quote ---
That's great
Supposing it has to be done the Windows way and even so resulting in the need to possess years of preknowledge in using a terminal I never tried and thus didn't know.
I think it would be very helpful, if the core fact
an usb stick is created in three steps:
* burn CD with automated script
* start PC with that CD
* and the usb stick will be created automatically
would be made visible on first sight before starting the overload of 300 lines of expert text making many newcomers believe that it is useless to try.
So TC is great as well in
* setting up virtual machines for greater web security
* as in running a computer from an usb stick
A virtual machine setup can be automated that it works without preknowledge.
To automate the creation in a similar way resulting in
* a settings logic working without preknowledge*
* downloadable sample installswould it be possible for an usb stick too?
_____________
* The control panel is a great approach to exchange GUI for terminal, but even so it's usage needs preknowledge - a barrier for newcomers.
To my opinion it's not so much the question of GUI or not GUI, it's more the question of creating a self explaining logic working for a newbie without any preknowledge - what's possible with jQuery like methods, presenting information just in time without producing masses of text making 99% of newbies run away.
roberts:
Tiny Core is not a turnkey desktop system. If newbie means it must look like Windows, operate like Windows, run inside Windows, and be aware of Windows utilities, then sorry. I don't run Windows. I have no interest in Windows.
IMHO it is wrong to make Linux Windows-like for the sake of newbies. As I have stated many times, if newbies need a windows like Linux, there are distributions that accomodate.
I think it is far more important and interesting to explore alternate ways to run an operating system. It is why I am here and why I and the Team put forth the effort.
If some feel that there is a steep learning curve here, it mainly because of preconceived ideas which are expected when most all operating system have and continue to offer the same basics.
Tiny Core's progress has been fast and continues to be, as such documentation is always behind.
But if those who can document, screen-drop, and or, make narrated videos would; it would be more helpful than trying to make Tiny Core Windows friendly.
BTW the pendrive installation is on the menu. It is about as simple as it gets.
althalus:
--- Quote from: JoXo009 on January 03, 2010, 09:20:04 PM ---I think it would be very helpful, if the core fact
an usb stick is created in three steps:
* burn CD with automated script
* start PC with that CD
* and the usb stick will be created automatically
would be made visible on first sight before starting the overload of 300 lines of expert text making many newcomers believe that it is useless to try.
--- End quote ---
Um... USB installer script aside, I've used the manual installation guide on the tinycore website a couple of times, and those instructions are clear and easy enough that there are only to skills needed to install tinycore (And as such, I have no idea why people have so much trouble - I can understand people who do not have strong english skills struggling, but for the rest of the strugglers, well...)...
* English Comprehension
* Ability to follow instructions
Nor do I remember the instructions taking 300 lines.
--- Quote ---* The control panel is a great approach to exchange GUI for terminal, but even so it's usage needs preknowledge - a barrier for newcomers.
To my opinion it's not so much the question of GUI or not GUI, it's more the question of creating a self explaining logic working for a newbie without any preknowledge - what's possible with jQuery like methods, presenting information just in time without producing masses of text making 99% of newbies run away.
--- End quote ---
Think back to your first experience with windows. Did you just sit down in front of a windows machine and do everything without needing any help? No? Didn't think so.
Imagine you spent all your life working with Linux. Suddenly you need to start using Windows. It's going to be JUST as daunting to start learning windows as it is for others to start learning Linux. (I've actually run into this problem myself recently. When vista came out, I skipped it and moved to linux, now suddenly I have family members who want help with windows 7!)
JoXo009:
--- Quote from: althalus on January 03, 2010, 10:05:54 PM ---I've used the manual installation guide on the tinycore website a couple of times, and those instructions are clear ...
--- End quote ---
You are absolutely right, the website Installation Guide is a perfect example for a user friendly kind of Linux.
--- Quote from: althalus on January 03, 2010, 10:05:54 PM ---Imagine you spent all your life working with Linux. Suddenly you need to start using Windows. It's going to be JUST as daunting to start learning windows ...
--- End quote ---
That's true too. It's not only Linux it's Windows too what needs to aquire several levels of user friendliness if it want's to be a mainstream operating system still in the year 2020.
In fact Im not arguing for or against Windows but for a more user friendly Linux.
--- Quote from: althalus on January 03, 2010, 10:05:54 PM ---Nor do I remember the instructions taking 300 lines.
--- End quote ---
It's a pity. Tinycore developers create so much great goodies, but many newcomers can't use them because nobody tells them where to find and how to use.
Let's take the example of the pendrive. Unfortunately there is no user friendly Installation Guide like the harddrive one.
The only Giude I know of is the 'Installing TC on USB' Guide in Wiki, which following 'WordCount' got 1,484 words in 316 lines in 111 paragraphs.
After stumbling upon a table of content signalizing that it's so much stuff that a table of content is necessary and stumbling upon general notes making confusion even greater Im glad to reach the title '2. usbinstall script: Installing within TC'.
No word until now, that I need to create a cd and that the cd will create the pendrive automatically, as explained above 'burn a cd, boot from cd, run usbinstall'
But never mind, at least an 'usb install script' is mentioned. Im advised
It can be found in the menu (Tools -> Usb install)
So I visit my TC menu:
But there is no usb install script :(
Normal user reaction: 'That's just Linux, maybe the word 'menu' is used with a different meaning, some secret stuff I never will be able to understand. So forget about.
That's one of the reasons why screenshots are a must if you want to create a viable Guide. Only screenshots can prevent the common misunderstandings.
Screenshots can even prevent the misunderstandings caused by errors of the author himself, as this example demonstrates.
A screenshot would show, that the Tools menu of the default TC installation looks different and contains a line which reads 'USB Installation'.
So the newcomer instead of running away would visit the forum and ask where is the 'USB Installation' menu line in icewm - and the error could be solved.
Without screenshots such Guide is kind of useless for newcomers.
But it's not screenshots alone, it's more what's needed for user friendlyness.
The starting screen of the script is quite informative, but a newcomer would need 2-3 sentences of background information (not within the script, but as 'USB Installation Guide' on the website or in the Wiki
2-3 meaningfull sentences only with screenshots attached and USB install would be as user friendly as the harddrive Install Guide already is.
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