tce uninstall?

[robc]

it's easier to write a simple extension if one line of code is added

It would make it insignificantly easier to write in a script or C and it would put a burden upon roberts to change tce-load as well as increase the size of extensions that are used. By having the uninstall package/script create its own file list then the file list would be temporary, would not increase the size of the packages and would only take 1-3 lines of code.

[tobiaus]

It would make it insignificantly easier to write in a script or C and it would put a burden upon roberts to change tce-load as well as increase the size of extensions that are used.

not really. adding an if line to tce load is not burden. the if line (any of us could write it, even me) would just look for two files, if it found one of them it would run a script named /usr/bin/genlist (or whatever) and genlist would be written by the extension author. if it didn't find the files, it would do nothing.

it helps to have tce-load call the list creator. you do not need to add 1 byte to the extensions themselves, the list creator could simply do a before and after... although that gives me an idea. what if the list generator calls tce-load instead? that could be done. the reason it's not good to replace tce-load itself is that roberts may want to update it, and it's no good having an extension that replaces tce-load with an outdated modified version.

that would be a burden, or at least an annoyance. but what i proposed hypothetically only involved adding one line to tce-load, and nothing to the extensions themselves. you could probably write a script that generates a filelist, calls appbrowser, generates a second list, runs diff, etc.

but do you see the problem with that idea? it still means that tce-load will not (optionally) register the extensions loaded on boot, so tce-uninstall wouldn't be able to uninstall them. in order to make it work without remastering, you may need that one line of code added. a line that will do nothing if the tce-uninstall extension does not exist.

[kerpob]

In practical terms, for me as a user, this means that I cannot experiment with tce packages since there is - from reading this thread - no way to remove them. This seems different from other distros and rather against the point of linux, which is meant to be free - which includes choices in loading and removing packages. And I'm sure my needs will change over time.

Also, is it possible to uninstall tcz packages by simply deleting them? This would give them an advantage over tce.

On another note - I have installed minefield as tce and it has added quite a bit to my boot time. Would it have been better to install it as tcz - in terms of boot times?

Finally - if I did install minefield as a tcz, some of its dependencies will be tce. Does this matter?

Sorry for all the questions - this is all a bit new to me!

[curaga]

Tcz packages can be uninstalled with the tcz-uninstall tool - it's available as a tce
Technically you can uninstall tce's, by removing it and rebooting, which is good enough response time.

Loading time depends greatly on the package, some are faster as a tcz, some are not.

Having tce dependencies with a tcz extension does not matter, they all mix-n-match (except for automatic dep loading, where a tcz can only depend on tcz-type extensions, but that's only for the appbrowser)

[Juanito]

..and I guess tce extensions could also be manually removed without re-boot by extracting the file listing from the extension tarball and deleting the files listed.

[mikshaw]

This seems different from other distros and rather against the point of linux, which is meant to be free - which includes choices in loading and removing packages.

Different, yes.  TC is on its own path.  I would definitely not say it's "against the point of linux", not in the least. You do have freedom...more so than with most other distros.   Freedom is about being able to use, share, and modify the software for whatever purpose you want, which is often so obscured by mindnumbingly mind numbing graphical interfaces and interdependent applications that the process of making changes sometimes seems not worth the effort.  Have you ever tried disabling the graphical login manager in Debian? It is surprisingly complex, almost painfully complex, when it traditionally should be a simple matter of changing a single digit in inittab.
 
TC has opted for simplicity and small size; rather than providing a tool for every desired task, you have the freedom to add and change what you like. Remastering is quicker and easier in TC than in any other distro I've seen.  The incredibly fast boot time means you can quickly reboot to return to a clean state in seconds.  The tce boot option allows you to set up multiple preset systems with custom collections of applications, using  the same base system for all of them.  And, as was mentioned, the tcz extension type along with the tcz-uninstall extension allows you to test applications and easily remove them without a reboot


EDIT: seems I was wrong about the login manager.  I was going by a result from a google search, which gave a lengthy and overly complex explanation that involved modifying multiple files.  As it turns out, simply removing the kdm symlink from the desired rc directory is good enough.  That is also something that Debian seems to make complicated, though.  In the rc.* readme file, it says

To disable a service in this runlevel, rename its script in this directory so that the new name begins with a 'K' and a two-digit number, where the number is the difference between the two-digit number following the 'S' in its current name, and 100.  To re-enable the service, rename the script back to its original name beginning with 'S'.

I don't know if that's a joke or not.

[tobiaus]

kerpob: as was probably already mentioned (just giving credit,) there are only two situations- neither of which most uses of tc will encounter- where you "cannot remove" a tce package:

1. you do not want to reboot (removing a tce package is usually as easy as deleting it from your tce store if you have one- if you don't there's no need to delete- and rebooting)

2. you have done a "traditional" install that goes somewhat against the intended design of tc- personally i think you should feel free to do this, although the way tc is designed (to focus on modularity) you can find yourself going uphill a lot. in this instance, ppi (read "core concepts") is a good compromise but also makes removing tce's a challenge.

it's not "impossible" to install tce packages then, either. but since a tce* package is basically a tar.gz, when have tar.gz files (in any distro) come with an uninstall option? tcz* packages are mounted, so removing them is about as simple as unmounting and deleting- saves rebooting.

if you want to experiment with tce's (adding and then removing them) the best options are frugal install, poorman's install, or just using the standard livecd boot with (or without) the tce=hdXY option.