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Author Topic: How to modify tc-config for: define httplist local - get packages onboot online?  (Read 6016 times)

Offline TT

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Hi guys, may I get a more balanced view near one-and-a-half year later? ;D

Offline TT

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;bump; I'm really sorry for that…

Offline gadget42

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With all due respect (and, in fact, it had been unspoken my own statement. You broke the silence first (just kidding)):

Seriously?… Well, perhaps. May I lay out few open questions? (for good surely exaggerated)

No responsible admins/users out there? No nginx for local ISPs? At home/work? Writing open source Linux was an unworthy effort, let's no shell scripts submit for modifying (*)? PXE booting is not a problem anymore? (I didn't get the meaning of the 'list that is looped')

Not trying to prop an example, really - but SliTaz boots with 0.8 Mb (!) ISO a full-blown desktop using the latter tech (which is really heavier than 'including' a singled-out module on a tiny system "upped" from what not necessary be a TCL mirror), and no sense of unhealthy competition?

*. Tiny Core Linux - Leo's Notes
the Leo's Notes website is interesting, thanks for the reference.
i want to understand your question more but need concrete instructions to replicate your experiments.
i have SliTaz 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, and Rolling Core 5 in 1
i have any/all TCL
what do i do next?
The fluctuation theorem has long been known for a sudden switch of the Hamiltonian of a classical system Z54 . For a quantum system with a Hamiltonian changing from... https://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,25972.msg166580.html#msg166580

Offline TT

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Hi, gadget42,

Thank you for noticing my thread (I did my homework) - and congratulations! you are the first in more than one and a half years to really have read into it, picking up the Leo's Notes website.
First thing first, my opening message back then was as follows:

How tc-config could be modified, so it loads packages online from locally defined httplist?

Kinda httplist=file:///… whereas file:///… has a content of: 192.168.0.1/…

Or would it be smarter to introduce a 'filelist' parameter to get_app with "FILE" following?

So, I had to refresh my memory before continuing. The idea was born out because of − if one or two or few modules could not fit my memory card − how could one get a left-behind module(s) (or, indeed, all) onboard but from a web server (e.g. one replicating the TCL structure) over http(s) instead of a local storage (i.e. instead of file:///…), and have it mounted the same way SliTaz had already mastered.

If my 'refreshed' memory serves me well, it was about (perhaps for sure) modifying initrd, which mounts local modules accordingly to the onboot.lst (was it get_app function in initrd?), but my proposal was to add a filelist parameter  (a "httplist") instructing get_app loading them ("files") ("modules") from the Internet instead (I may be mistaken in small details, but a system which can "mount", shall be able to "wget" or "curl"). I had already looked at the code and offered the TCL maintainers to seize this opportunity, which… well, was not received wholeheartedly.

I couldn't go back to that question now at the same level of curiosity as back then, time flies, but hopefully have clarified my first post.

In short: unpack initrd; modify the code around get_app ; accordingly to something like onboot.lst , define a filelist parameter  (a "httplist") instructing get_app loading them ("files") ("modules") from the Internet instead; type in your "httplist", it should look something like:

192.168.0.1/…/gnumeric.tcl
10.0.0.1/…/galculator.tcl
tinycorelinux.net/…/palemoon.tcl
etc.

and test that your system [downloads and] mounts the local [and downloaded] modules as instructed upon booting up.

Best,
TT

P.S. One may even envisage mounting modules without even downloading them, that is, mounting them over http(s) but that was not my original idea.

Offline Rich

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Hi TT
... 192.168.0.1/…/gnumeric.tcl
10.0.0.1/…/galculator.tcl ...
That's OK. You are supplying the data from your machines on your LAN.

Quote
... tinycorelinux.net/…/palemoon.tcl
etc. ...
This is not OK. Tinycore and the sites that mirror our repository provide access to extensions
at no cost to you. This service is not an unlimited resource and should not be squandered.
These sites have a fixed bandwidth and possibly monthly data caps associated with them. The
problem is not just how inconsiderate it would be for you to abuse this resource, but for how
disruptive it could be if everyone else decided to do the same thing. You are talking about
downloading the same extensions over and over every time you reboot you machine.

Quote
... P.S. One may even envisage mounting modules without even downloading them, that is, mounting them over http(s) but that was not my original idea.
Even worse. When you start the program it gets downloaded into RAM. If you exit the program and
start it again later on, it may no longer be cached in RAM and get downloaded again. If the program
uses overlays, they'll get downloaded every time they need to get swapped in again.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 07:10:56 PM by Rich »

Offline TT

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Hi Rich

Just to be clear, since I have stated it from the outset − I am not to be associated with, nor advocating "squandering ... Tinycore and the sites that mirror [TCL] repository" which "have a fixed bandwidth and possibly monthly data caps associated with them". Presumption of innocence is a cornerstone of justice (in a broad sense) − why would anyone put a purported blame on me for what I am not having any powers over??! I am not a father of every Internet child. And, speaking equally, TCL is not a father of each and every Internet mirror either, for this scenario policies indeed do exist.

For the other part ("if everyone else decided to do the same thing"), the best explanation is probably the following: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy#. Why, indeed, would "everyone else decided to do the same thing"? Is out there a sort of biblical synchronization event? What about in the worst inconsiderable case, setting ... well, data (or daily speed) caps? Isn't TCL somebody's open source project (I mean [at least initially] voluntary commitment, or is that truly expensive in your economy to run such a project [I'm not an expert on this])? I am just trying to be reasonable and serious, please, get me in the right way. How one could stop modifying as little as a shell script? I have replied to the user with just examples for better understanding.

And the SliTaz guys shall be definitely pilloried as the worst abusers of their own infrastructure: Internet with gPXE.

Finally, my "P.S." section was just a thoughtful phrase, if there exists a sort of NFS over http(s), which does not get downloaded every time they need to get swapped in again (edit: I'm not getting into technicalities here and it actually may get 'swapped in' again).

I think, I had already explained it all in the above posts, there should be no need for more explanation entropy and making the Heat death of the universe any closer. The moderators also had a say. There could be either heeding the progress or abandoning it altogether.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 12:58:56 AM by TT »

Offline Rich

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Hi TT
... I am not to be associated with, nor advocating "squandering ...
That's awfully defensive. All I did was quote your example and state  "This is not OK.".
I then explained why I felt it is not OK.

Quote
... blame on me for what I am not having any powers over??! I am not a father of every Internet child. ...
I understand. You want to push for someone to create this option, and still be able to say
it's not your fault other users are using what you pushed for.

Quote
... TCL is not a father of each and every Internet mirror either ...
That is correct. However, just as we don't want to encourage excess traffic on our
servers, we also don't want to place further demands on the mirrors that graciously
host our distro.

Quote
... Why, indeed, would "everyone else decided to do the same thing"? ...
Figure of speech. The point being we are not adding a configuration option that could
needlessly generate extra server traffic.

Quote
... What about in the worst inconsiderable case, setting ... well, data (or daily speed) caps? ...
We would still be dealing with extra traffic. Besides, the best way to handle data and/or
speed caps is to not create a need for them in the first place.

Quote
... And the SliTaz guys shall be definitely pilloried as the worst abusers of their own infrastructure: Internet with gPXE. ...
What the SliTaz guys do with their distro is their business.

Or maybe I misunderstood your point. Does the point you were trying to make
go something like this:
    Bobbys mom: OK Bobby, it's 10PM, time to go to bed.
    Bobby: Already? But Charlies mom lets him stay up until 1 AM.
And maybe you think this exchange ends like this:
    Bobbys mom: Alright, since Charlies mom says it's OK you can stay up too.

Quote
... I am just trying to be reasonable and serious, please, get me in the right way. ...
Maybe get an online Google drive? I think you can get about 15 Gigabytes for free. Mount
the drive using  bootlocal.sh  and then you can load extra extensions like this:
Code: [Select]
tce-load -i /mnt/Path/To/Google/Drive/ExtensionName.tcz

Offline TT

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Hi Rich

I have made my points. You have made yours. I respect what other people are saying, because they're independent, even if personal allusions may appear unfair and hurtful to me. I am not an antagonist in any way to you, or the TCL guys here. This is all about technology, not about the messenger. Let me stop here, however, firmly reject your "you want … still be able to say it's not your fault" and "maybe you think", as nobody can seriously claim reading other people's minds. If you guys don't want to place further demands on the mirrors that graciously host [TCL] distro, that group thinking is wonderful, however it was about if I want to utilize my own mirror, would you still don't want to place any demands on me utilizing my own infrastructure (this is just one scenario). Why pushing forward a mischievous attitude first, I could hardly understand. This is not going to help in life. I have got your other points right about the TCL ideology, and may assure you, you have my understanding. This could frankly have been stated next to my first message along with the alternative GDrive suggestion. There is no shame to stand by the TinyCore philosophy, I only appeal to you guys to give it the benefit of a doubt or a periodical review, and not to have it frozen in time.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 06:49:27 AM by TT »

Offline Rich

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Hi TT
... along with the alternative GDrive suggestion. ...
If you are interested, I posted instructions on how to mount a Google drive here:
https://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,25996.0.html