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Author Topic: Kernel considers dropping 486 support  (Read 2852 times)

Offline curaga

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Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« on: October 23, 2022, 11:41:32 AM »
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Intel-i486-Linux-Possible-Drop

It may be that 6.2 is the first kernel without 486 support. The next TC would be on 6.1, so there's a chance it's the last release that supports 486.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline Juanito

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2022, 01:42:41 PM »
I was thinking of 6.1 anyway since it’s likely to be the next lts kernel.

Offline patrikg

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2022, 03:21:42 PM »
Sorry for high jacking this thread.
Let us see what Linus says about the future.
https://youtu.be/sLimmpZWRNI

Offline vinceASPECT

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2022, 05:41:48 AM »
Yes,

Things move on as consumers avidly by newer tech.

Things like SSE2 supported cpu chips can be a question sometimes.

thx
C

Offline hiro

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2022, 06:27:21 AM »
just in terms of power efficiency I do believe there's a limit whereafter it makes sense to replace gear that runs 24/7 just to save resources.
but i do agree that this limit lies much later than when average consumers replace their phones and PCs (which are often used for limited time).

Offline vinceASPECT

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2022, 04:40:06 PM »
HEllo,

Yes, it's difficult to predict.

Some corporations also want to receive
grant aid and so will "mothball" the IT equipment so they can submit
new equipment requirements   (so they can get a new city grants for new gear)

The high tech manufacturing play into it with a plethora of CPU's like Intel
do. Many just iterations of the same thing. ......in an attempt to swamp customer base.

With the  insatiable demand for tech........we just move on

it's thanks to TCL and such like that tech gear lives on.........it stays useful for people.

thx
C

Offline nick65go

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2022, 03:11:10 AM »
When I boot with UEFI, TC13_x64 sees 8 GB RAM total. But when I boot with BIOS (compatible from UEFI) then TC13_x32 sees just 2 GB RAM total. "Loosing" 6 GB RAM is not desirable for me just to use 32 bits appls. This force me to use the 32 bits apps in chroot environment. Will next TC14 kernel be built to use 4GB RAM for total apps (without swap file/partition)?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2022, 03:12:44 AM by nick65go »

Offline Juanito

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2022, 03:47:28 AM »
I don’t believe there’s anything stopping 32-bit tinycore using 4gb ram?

What happens when you boot 32-bit with uefi and 64-bit with bios?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2022, 04:00:26 AM by Juanito »

Offline nick65go

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2022, 04:49:19 AM »
my laptop has UEFI firmware on 64 bits. In firmware I have 2 options: UEFI only, or to emulate BIOS compatible. The boot-loader is grub-2.0 on 64 bits. From grub I can choose 2 menus: tc13 on 32 bits, or tc13 on 64 bits. For tc13 on 64 bits all is OK.

boot 64-bit with BIOS: not possible, because the HP laptop is UEFI by default, and optional I can enable BIOS compatible.
boot 32-bit with uefi? : For tc13 on 32 bits I have only 2 GB RAM total (shared CPU+GPU=> AMD APU); basically is "BIOS emulation" because CPU on 64 bits and TC on 32 bits.

So, if you say that "there’s anything stopping 32-bit tinycore using 4gb ram", then it must be a HP firmware bug. But if I am not remembering it wrong, i had the same max 2 GB RAM limitation for tc13_x86 even in a qemu VM with 4 GB RAM (but then we go in qemu bugs).
« Last Edit: October 26, 2022, 04:55:27 AM by nick65go »

Offline hiro

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2022, 05:40:21 AM »
personally i've been using the 64bit kernel with TC 32bit userland for a long time.
what's the reason you want a 32bit kernel instead?
indeed i have seen weird failures on multiple 64bit PCs when trying to use 32bit kernels :(

Offline nick65go

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2022, 05:51:59 AM »
Updates: I fresh cold boot the laptop. I tested again with (AND THEN without) "legacy BIOS emulation", booting (with grub) the TC13 on 32 bits (and Xfbdev, because 32 bits distro). It is a HP firmware bug

Because now I boot with TC13_x64, load TC13_x86 in qemu:
Code: [Select]
qemu-system-x86_64 -m 4098M -kernel vmlinuz -initrd core.gz -append "nowsap nozram" and inside qemu I see (with free command) that mem total is 3,109, 584,swap is 764,112;  so tc sees over 2GB.

I am Very sorry for the noise. I keep hate the close source ( f***k HP/Dell/etc firmware).
PS: I also use kernel 64 bits (for its drivers acceleration) with 32 bits apps. The kernel on 32 bits is for VM in qemu (internet isolation from host), where "every little helps" to reduce RAM request from main host RAM.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2022, 05:59:13 AM by nick65go »

Offline GNUser

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2022, 12:12:35 PM »
personally i've been using the 64bit kernel with TC 32bit userland for a long time.
Why would you do want to do that? Just curious. If CPU is 64-bit, using 64-bit kernel and 64-bit userland seems to be the obvious choice.

Offline Rich

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2022, 03:38:11 PM »
Hi GNUser
A 32 bit kernel can manage 4 gigabytes of address space. Part of that space will be reserved for
video, audio, Ethernet, and other hardware on the motherboard. So a 64 bit motherboard with
4 gigabytes of RAM may only be able to access 2.5 or 3 gigabytes of RAM when booting a 32 bit
kernel. If you boot with Core64 (not Corepure64) you can run 32 bit apps and access all of your
RAM. More importantly, if you have more that 4 gigabytes of RAM, you will be able to utilize all
of it.

Why would you do want to do that? ...
Someone gave me a 64 bit netbook with 2 gigabytes of RAM (non expandable) that refused to
boot a 32 bit kernel. With 2 gig of RAM there is no need or reason to run 64 bit extensions.

32 bit programs tend to be smaller and have a smaller native data size.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2022, 08:40:29 PM by Rich »

Offline GNUser

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2022, 06:08:46 PM »
Thank you, Rich. Very interesting. TCL attracts knowledgeable users who know how to get the most out of their hardware.

Offline patrikg

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Re: Kernel considers dropping 486 support
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2022, 04:22:14 PM »
Here some more new talk with Linus.
with Intel
https://youtu.be/0m4hlWx7oRk