[Solved] Issues related to the Linux package manager

[marcelocripe]

"Hi marcelocripe! In fact, you only need to use English or try to use English to communicate here. This will save time and server resources, and maybe improve your English communication skills. After all, English is the common language for international groups and the Internet. "

NOOB,

I have no idea what is written or how the texts translated from Portuguese to English are being interpreted, I inform the source of the translation, which is Google Translate. I did some tests with other translators and what I was able to notice is that some modify more and others modify less the original meaning of the texts. I am unable to communicate in English without the help of online translators.

Comment for NOOB, maybe PDP-8 already knows this:

I thought it was very important and the biggest difference in the functionality of Tiny Core Plus is that it allows the user to choose which program / extension to load and when to load it. This I haven't seen in another distro yet ...


PDP-8,

I wish I could respond correctly to your comments, but the translations were not sufficiently understandable. I just don't understand why your words are so harsh ...



NOOB and PDP-8,

I am a beginner in the Linux world, when I arrived here, at Tiny Core and in this forum I was very well received and got several help from several colleagues, to whom I will always be grateful.

My goal in this post was to be able to collaborate or help NOOB, I don't know what his level of knowledge is about this vast world that are the Linux distro, my knowledge, for now, is limited. In the same way that they did to me when I got here, I hope I can do the same, which is to help and nothing more.

After testing, learning to use and operating a little Tiny Core Plus, thanks to the help I got here, I came to some conclusions, that Tiny Core Plus is an excellent operating system, it suits me and other colleagues who somehow manage to use a system in English, I say that English is not easy for me, Spanish and Italian are closer to the Portuguese language, I manage to get around with great difficulty regarding the language. However, for users who have great difficulties in reading in their native language (Portuguese), due to functional illiteracy (as it is ... this, unfortunately exists in the country where I live), it became much more difficult to teach computers to these users with a system that is not in Portuguese.

Due to the language issue, I needed to test other minimalist Linux distributions (is there a problem with that ?!) or the distros that consume as little RAM and processing as possible to allow the reuse of old computers (over 15 to 20 years old) , here where I live, we will have to keep these computers and notebooks running as long as they can be repaired and as long as possible.

Aproposito, PDP-8, who are you? Where were you born? Where do you live?

Maybe, you don't know what misery is, or living in poverty, so you don't understand my words (translated) ...


"However, after reading the many requests for the same thing on many forums, what we REALLY have going on is this:

You'd like to have the devs and community members of this and other communities, change their package management strategies to fit YOUR goals. "

Maybe it's because you didn't understand the objective ...

Think about it ..., it's something I read from another colleague on a forum, "if developers and maintainers were to focus more on the operating system and less on having to package or compile the same programs multiple times for their respective distribution ... ", I believe that this is the way for everyone to gain from it, as there would be backward compatibility, less rework and greater results in less time.

If one of the GNU / Linux philosophies is freedom, where is freedom if we depend on exclusive or specific repositories?

What I would like is for Linux distros to be closer to each other and not for each to live in its own isolated world.

Glad we have different opinions ...

Original text in Brazilian Portuguese, translation into English by Google Translate.

marcelocripe

--------------

"Hi marcelocripe! In fact, you only need to use English or try to use English to communicate here. This will save time and server resources, and maybe improve your English communication skills. After all, English is the common language for international groups and the Internet."

NOOB,

Eu não possuo ideia do que está escrito ou de como estão sendo interpretados os textos traduzidos do idioma português para o inglês, eu informo a fonte da tradução que é o Google Tradutor. Eu fiz alguns testes com outros tradutores e o que eu consegui perceber é que alguns modificam mais e outros modificam menos o sentido original dos textos. Eu não tenho condições alguma de me comunicar em inglês sem o auxílio dos tradutores online.

Comentário para o NOOB, talvez o PDP-8 já saiba isso:

Eu achei importantíssimo e o maior diferencial na funcionalidade do Tiny Core Plus é que permite ao usuário escolher qual programa/extensão deseja ser carregado e quando desejar carregar. Isso eu não vi em outra distro ainda ...


PDP-8,

Eu gostaria de poder responder corretamente aos seus comentários, mas as traduções não ficaram suficientemente compreensíveis. Eu só não entendo o porquê das suas palavras serem tão duras ...



NOOB e PDP-8,

Eu sou iniciante no mundo Linux, quando cheguei aqui, no Tiny Core e neste fórum eu fui muito bem recebido e obtive diversas ajudas de vários colegas, aos quais eu sempre serei grato.

O meu objetivo nesta postagem era de poder colaborar ou ajudar o NOOB, eu não sei qual é o nível de conhecimento dele sobre este mundo vasto que são as distro Linux, o meu conhecimento, por enquanto, é limitado. Da mesma forma que fizeram comigo quando cheguei aqui, eu espero poder fazer o mesmo, que é ajudar e nada mais.

Após testar, aprender a usar e a operar um pouco o Tiny Core Plus, graças a ajuda que eu tive aqui, eu cheguei a algumas conclusões, de que o Tiny Core Plus é um excelente sistema operacional, serve para mim e para outros colegas que conseguem de alguma forma utilizar um sistema em inglês, eu digo que não é nada fácil para mim a língua inglesa, o espanhol e o italiano são mais próximos ao idioma português, eu consigo contornar com grande dificuldade quanto ao idioma. Contudo para os usuários que possuem grandes dificuldades em ler em sua língua natal (português), devido ao analfabetismo funcional (pois é ... isso, infelizmente existe no país que eu vivo), ficou muito mais difícil para ensinar informática para estes usuários com um sistema que não está em idioma português.

Devido a questão do idioma, eu precisei testar outras distribuições Linux minimalistas (existe algum problema nisso?!) ou as distro que consomem o menos possível de memória RAM e processamento para permitirem a reutilização de computadores antigos (com mais de 15 a 20 anos), aqui onde vivo, nós teremos que manter estes computadores e notebook funcionando enquanto forem possíveis de serem consertados e o maior tempo possível.

Aproposito, PDP-8, quem é você? Onde você nasceu? Onde vive?

Talvez, você não saiba o que é a miséria, ou viver em meio a pobreza, por isso não compreende as minhas palavras (traduzidas) ...   


"However, after reading the many requests for the same thing on many forums, what we REALLY have going on is this:

You'd like to have the devs and community members of this and other communities, change their package management strategies to fit YOUR goals."

Talvez seja porque você não tenha entendido o objetivo ...

Pense bem nisso ..., é algo que eu li de outro colega em um fórum, "se os desenvolvedores e mantenedores se concentrassem mais no sistema operacional e menos em ter que ficar empacotando ou compilando os mesmos programas várias vezes para a sua respectiva distribuição ...", eu acredito que este seja o caminho para que todos possam sair ganhando com isso, pois haveria a retrocompatibilidade, menos retrabalho e maiores resultados em menos tempo.

Se uma das filosofias do GNU/Linux é a liberdade, onde está a liberdade se dependemos de repositórios exclusivos ou de repositórios específicos?

O que eu gostaria é que as distros Linux fossem mais próximas umas das outras e não que cada uma vivesse em seu próprio mundo isolado.

Que bom que temos diferentes opiniões ...

Texto original em português do brasil, tradução para o inglês por Google Tradutor.

marcelocripe

[Sashank999]

For anyone who want a unified linux distro, see this :

From here : https://github.com/aleksandar-todorovic/awesome-linux#x-desktop-environments .

[TinyCoreLinux]

@Sashank999
 

[TinyCoreLinux]

Hello @marcelocripe
In my opinion, there is no one who is right or wrong, who is good or bad. Right or wrong, good or bad, I think, depends on how different people look at problems and think about problems.
I've had a lot of conversations with PDP-8 recently, and I think there's some truth to what he's saying. It's just that we see things differently.
I've always focused more on the technical issues themselves than anything else.
For some reason, Many of the things you said in your post, I can't reply to you here. If you are interested, we can discuss it in private.

[marcelocripe]

For anyone who want a unified linux distro, see this :

From here : https://github.com/aleksandar-todorovic/awesome-linux#x-desktop-environments .

Sashank999,

Me desculpe, mas eu não compreendo o idioma inglês. Mesmo traduzindo, eu não tenho certeza se compreendi o que a charge se propõe.


Trump,

Podemos conversar sim em particular.
É sempre bom poder saber e compreender o ponto de vista dos mais experientes, assim quem sabe  eu passo a enxergar com um outro ponto de vista.

Eu espero não ter sido mal interpretado, eu apenas compartilho a visão de um iniciante em mundo vasto de distribuições Linux.

Eu peço desculpas, eu nunca quis ofender ninguém, ao contrário, eu sou grato a todos que sempre me ajudaram e que sempre compartilham o seu conhecimento.

marcelocripe

---------------
 

For anyone who want a unified linux distro, see this :

From here : https://github.com/aleksandar-todorovic/awesome-linux#x-desktop-environments .

Sashank999,

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the English language. Even translating, I'm not sure if I understood what the cartoon proposes.


Trump,

We can talk privately.
It is always good to be able to know and understand the point of view of the most experienced, so maybe I will start to see it from another point of view.

I hope I haven't been misunderstood, I just share a beginner's vision in a vast world of Linux distributions.

I apologize, I never wanted to offend anyone, on the contrary, I am grateful to everyone who has always helped me and who always share their knowledge.

marcelocripe

[PDP-8]

@marcelocripe - believe it or not, I am sympathetic to your cause.

Maybe I can summarize your needs since there is a translation issue, along with the fact that forum text communications are not ideal.

My posts are long enough - and google translate is doing a fine job with yours.  So no need to double-post in two languages.  The people that don't read my messages may not be reading yours either due to length.

So based on this and other forums, maybe we can look at this from a non-profit kind of way, and let me know if your needs are different.

1) Based on links you provided elsewhere, you run a local computer / hardware repair shop when I visited those websites of yours.  Fine.

2) You want to support your local community by providing them cast-off computers for free and also give them support.  Great!

4) Because the machines are old, "tiny" or minimal linux distros are ideal for getting them up and running.  Older Knoppix distros may serve that purpose, among others, but there is something else I'm missing.

5) Your userbase does not have internet access, so package downloads are limited to local disks only.  Because small distros - to stay small - rely on the end-users to download any packages they feel are missing, so this is another problem.

6) You don't have the skills to fix this yourself.  That's ok.  So you visit many small distros, and try to get some to create an "offline package" repository, whereby you might better be able to distribute those to your end-users, or maybe they can just come to the shop, or you make a house-visit.  Ok cool.

You know that TinyCore can already do this right?  But people assume that you'll want to learn the system, and maybe become knowledgeable about remastering to support your end-users needs.

The other issue is that many small distros have their own package management system, and may be limited in scope by community contributions.

So what you are seeking is a very small distro, with offline access to a much larger amount of modern software but you don't have the skills to remaster (that's ok), and TC's limited packages may not be a good fit with your overall plan of supporting 10 to 20 year old computers.

Does this sound right?  Is package-management the sticking point - from needing someone to create an offline package-management system that incorporates much more than what the small-distro's themselves offer?

Maybe we can find a better solution for that.  Like setting a cut-off point in your hardware that won't run the 32-bit version of antiX.  Which you can conveniently tweak to your liking and immediately make a bootable iso-snapshot from and distribute to your users.  With one click.

The projects you've visited actually have solutions in hiding - but you should spend more time with them first getting to know them, rather than requesting changes in direction right at the start.

I truly think this is what you are seeking, if you wouldn't mind setting a hardware support cutoff where some things truly need to be recycled.  Like my old Micro-Vax.

[TinyCoreLinux]

Based on the reply from PDF-8 to you, I think you're doing something very meaningful that I'm interested in anyway.
 I don't know why you are there, Now the Internet has not been popularized.

I think that's probably the main problem, and I think it's an opportunity. But I guess you can access the Internet.

I suggest that you can purchase a super large hard disk or mobile hard disk (> 500GB, 1TB is recommended) to store all extensions. If possible, you can also store common open source systems or open source projects to build a local software repository.

For network problems: I suggest that you can cooperate with your friends and neighbors to establish a network cluster or node using wired or wireless technology, In this way, your customers can connect to the software warehouse provided by you through the network cluster or node provided by you. Of course, the server is required to provide distribution services. However, you can cooperate with friends who have computers around you to build a server cluster with your own computers, so that more people can visit at the same time.

I don't know what kind of place you live, but in my opinion, this is a huge business opportunity....

I don't want to go on with the latter words, so as not to cause other people's arguments.

[Greg Erskine]

I think "Your are fire out !" should be "You're fired !"

[TinyCoreLinux]

@Greg Erskine
Ha ha, I think we are all right, but I like what you said better. It can highlight the style of Trump's speech.

[PDP-8]

Well, I'm still trying to help him find a solution.

Just read over the threads here, Slitaz, antiX, and VoidLinux to get the most information about his quest.  There are a LOT of people trying to help, but most are puzzled about the lack of experience with the projects involved.

It appears that merely making bootable iso snapshots are not desired either.
Nothing but a full offline repository, even if the project does not offer that will do.

So, marcelocripe, I still think that Anti-X is the best choice, despite the ongoing effort there helping you may be stalled.

You know that when you use a debian-based system, you can create your OWN offline repository by merely telling the system (either by the tools apt, dpkg, or gui synaptic) to just download all that you desire, and not install them right?

And now you can create your own massive collection.  Now, take that to your users, and use the standard debian techiques to install what they want from YOUR disk, or you can do it for them.

Here is an example you might want to look at for some ideas:
https://www.pcsuggest.com/how-to-use-an-iso-file-as-offline-repository-in-debian/

There are many others - I think it may be easier and faster to look into using common packaging options available in debian-based solutions.  I'm pretty sure you would be able to do similar in AntiX, without having to rely on a custom-built repository - simply because the means to do so are within the reach of an end-user's hands.

[marcelocripe]

PDP-8,

Você conseguiu resumir praticamente tudo, provavelmente você buscou o meu site e as minhas postagens nas distro citadas ...

No meu site, em português do Brasil, pois é ... é o que eu sei falar e escrever, no site inclui a parte da "Responsabilidade" (Social), não é uma loja, bem que eu gostaria que fosse, é só um meio de divulgar a minha mão de obra e de outros colegas para o maior número de pessoas possível, tem até músicos e compositores lá ...

Só faltou incluir a parte social onde eu presto serviços voluntários na área de informática ... E é aí que entra uma distro Linux, justamente quem mais precisa de distros Linux não tem acesso a elas, eu me incluo nisso, eu comecei a ter contato com esse vasto mundo Linux a pouco tempo, quem mais possui dificuldades econômicas e sociais, os que precisam urgentemente de uma disto Linux e se livrar de produto não original, nem sabem o que são distro Linux. Se não fosse os tradutores do navegador ou online, eu continuaria sem enxergar esta importante distribuição Linux e a comunicação simplesmente não ocorreria.

É verdade, provavelmente ninguém lê os nosso textos longos. Pensando bem este tópico era para ajudar o NOOB.

E você acabou me ajudando. Agradeço pelo link, vou estudar...

Que bom que os textos estão chegando de forma compreensíveis, eu não tenho nem ideia do que o Google traduz ..., a tradução inversa fica sem sentido algum.

Trump,

O Tiny Core Plus já me dá a possibilidade do repositório offline, eu acho fantástico isso, ter esta "liberdade", eu só precisei aprender, graças as ajudas que eu recebi do pessoal deste fórum eu consegui fazer as instalações offline (Muito obrigado a todos!), esta questão de instalação offline no Tiny Core Plus está superada. O que impediu o uso do Tiny Core Plus nas duas redes de computadores das ONG's, foi o idioma, nem tanto do TinyCore, foi muito mais devido a falta de tradução dos programas aplicativos, o motivo eu havia explicado na minha postagem anterior ...

Vocês não tem ideia como foi sofrível ter que buscar tudo de novo ... E só tem um caminho, o caminho onde eu posso poder contar com o apoio dos colegas do fórum, haja vista que não há curso de Tiny Core Linux, ou curso de SliTaz, ou curso de antiX, até existe de Debian, mas você já viu os preços ... "Sozinho não conseguimos nada, juntos conseguimos tudo!"

Agradeço por suas considerações.

Muito obrigado

marcelocripe 

[marcelocripe]

Perdão ...
Eu me esqueci de incluir o texto traduzido em inglês.

-----------

Pardon ...
I forgot to include the translated text in English.

PDP-8,

You managed to summarize practically everything, you probably searched my website and my posts in the aforementioned distro ...

On my website, in Brazilian Portuguese, it is ... it is what I know how to speak and write, the website includes the "Responsibility" (Social) part, it is not a store, although I would like it to be, it is just a means of promoting my workforce and that of other colleagues to as many people as possible, there are even musicians and composers there ...

We just needed to include the social part where I provide volunteer services in the IT area ... And that is where a Linux distro comes in, precisely who most needs Linux distros does not have access to them, I include myself in that, I started to have contact with this vast Linux world recently, who else has economic and social difficulties, those who urgently need one of this Linux and get rid of non-original product, do not even know what Linux distro is. If it weren't for the browser or online translators, I would still not see this important Linux distribution and communication would simply not occur.

It is true, probably nobody reads our long texts. On second thought this topic was to help NOOB.

And you ended up helping me. Thank you for the link, I will study ...

It's good that the texts are coming in understandable ways, I have no idea what Google translates ..., the reverse translation is meaningless.

Trump,

Tiny Core Plus already gives me the possibility of the offline repository, I think it's fantastic, to have this "freedom", I just needed to learn, thanks to the help I received from the people at this forum, I was able to do the installations offline (Thank you all very much !), this issue of installing offline on Tiny Core Plus is overcome. What prevented the use of Tiny Core Plus in the two computer networks of the NGOs, was the language, not so much of TinyCore, it was much more due to the lack of translation of the application programs, the reason I had explained in my previous post ...

You have no idea how painful it was to have to search all over again ... And there is only one way, the way where I can count on the support of colleagues from the forum, since there is no Tiny Core Linux course, or course of SliTaz, or antiX course, there is even Debian, but you have seen the prices ... "We alone did not achieve anything, together we achieved everything!"

I thank you for your considerations.

Thank you very much

marcelocripe

[PDP-8]

Ok, I get it totally.  We need to get over the translation hump and I have a suggestion later..

Translated:

We just needed to include the social part where I provide volunteer services in the IT area ... And that's where a Linux distro comes in, precisely who most needs Linux distros does not have access to them, I include myself in that, I started to have contact with this vast Linux world recently, who else has economic and social difficulties, those who urgently need one of this Linux and get rid of non-original product, do not even know what Linux distro is. If it weren't for the browser or online translators, I would still not see this important Linux distribution and communication would simply not occur.

So here is my suggestion - the goal being to get your users active asap.

Even though you are seeking tiny / small distros, have you enquired with these guys to seek assistance, even though their own Brazilian distribution is not suitable for your users?

https://www.biglinux.com.br/

and

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=biglinux

Even though they have "big" in their name, and their distro by itself may be unsuitable, there may be members that if you explain your project, they may be willing to help!

Here is their forum - surely someone can offer assistance:

https://forum.biglinux.com.br/

And that doesn't mean having to use BigLinux itself.  There may be those who can guide you quickly to exactly what you want to do - with other distros like antiX much faster than we could.

And no translation issues so there are no misunderstandings.

Heh, and just because they are concerned with BigLinux, doesn't mean that there aren't a few running TinyCore on the side ...

See what I mean?  It might be the fastest way to get down to exactly what you need to do, and even get more local support for your project!

[marcelocripe]

PDP-8,

I tried to contact the GoboLinux people via email and Facebook, https://gobolinux.org/, for now, the conversation is stopped in the third email, they do not have a forum, there are no tutorials on the internet, the site is all in English. This distro consumes about 106 MB (according to the free command) and 193 MB (according to the htop command).

I will try to contact the people at BigLinux, but what I found at the link: https://www.biglinux.com.br/Download/, are not so encouraging.

Minimum configuration

64-bit Intel or AMD processor or compatible
2 GB of RAM
8 GB of storage space

and

Recommended configuration

64-bit Intel or AMD processor or compatible
4 GB or more of RAM
40 GB or more of storage space

For me they are equivalent to the Windows 7 system requirements.

Other Brazilian distros:

Metamorphose Linux, https://www.metamorphoselinux.net/#features, are not all that exciting either

Minimum specifications
64-bit processor: 1.0 Ghz
RAM: 02 Gb
Disk space: 15 Gb
Video Card: Intel, Nvidia or Ati with graphics acceleration for effects, 3D games and Steam.


Linuxfx, http://www.linuxfx.org/index.php/sistemas-operacionais/linuxfx-10-w, do not even inform the system requirements

DuZeru, https://duzeru.org/

DuZeru OS 4.1

Low hardware consumption and beauty combined with:

CPU: 1.0 Ghz CODENAME: Maracajá
RAM: 512MB KERNEL: 4.19
HD: 4.5Gb DESKTOP: Xfce
VIDEO: 12Mb ISO: 1.3GB
VGA: 640 x 480 LIVE: Yes
X64 architecture EFI MBR / BIOS Legacy INSTALLER: Calamares
BASE: Debian Stable

Hyperbola, https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:main:downloads&redirect=1, is confused and I was unable to understand the hardware requirements

I did some research on the extinct Kurumin 7 which was discontinued in January 2008.

I know that there is a difference between the "minimum system requirement" and what the system actually consumes, there is no time to test it, there are so many ... I wish I had access to Linux distro at least 20 years ago.

Thank you very much for all your suggestions.

marcelocripe

--------------

PDP-8,

Eu tentei contato com o pessoal do GoboLinux via e-mail e Facebook, https://gobolinux.org/, por enquanto, a conversa está parada no terceiro e-mail, não possuem fórum, não há tutoriais na internet, o site está todo em inglês. Esta distro consome cerca de 106 MB (segundo o comando free) e 193 MB (segundo o comando htop).

Vou tentar contato com o pessoal do BigLinux, mas o que eu encontrei no link: https://www.biglinux.com.br/Download/,  não são tão animadores.

Configuração mínima

Processador de 64 bits Intel ou AMD ou compatível
2 GB de memória RAM
8 GB de espaço de armazenamento

e

Configuração recomendada

Processador de 64 bits Intel ou AMD ou compatível
4 GB ou mais de memória RAM
40 GB ou mais de espaço de armazenamento

Para mim são equivalentes aos requisitos de sistema do Windows 7.

Outras distros Brasileiras:

O Metamorphose Linux, https://www.metamorphoselinux.net/#features, também não são tão animadores assim

Especificações mínimas
Processador 64 bits : 1.0 Ghz
Memória RAM: 02 Gb
Espaço em disco: 15 Gb
Placa de Vídeo:  Intel, Nvidia ou Ati com aceleração gráfica para os efeitos,  jogos 3D e Steam.


Linuxfx, http://www.linuxfx.org/index.php/sistemas-operacionais/linuxfx-10-w, sequer informam os requisitos de sistemas

O DuZeru, https://duzeru.org/

DuZeru OS 4.1

Baixo consumo de Hardware e beleza unidos com:

CPU:   1.0 Ghz      CODENAME:   Maracajá
RAM:   512MB      KERNEL:   4.19
HD:   4.5Gb      DESKTOP:   Xfce
VÍDEO:   12Mb      ISO:   1.3GB
VGA:   640 x 480      LIVE:   Sim
Aquitetura   x64 EFI MBR/BIOS Legacy      INSTALADOR:   Calamares
BASE:   Debian Stable

O Hyperbola, https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:main:downloads&redirect=1, está confuso e eu não consegui compreender os requisitos de hardware

Eu pesquisei um pouco sobre o extinto Kurumin 7 que foi descontinuado em janeiro de 2008.

Eu sei que existe diferença entre o "requisito de sistema mínimo" e o que realmente o sistema consome, falta tempo tempo para poder testar, são tantos ... eu gostaria de ter tido acesso as distro Linux a pelo menos 20 anos atrás.

Muito obrigado por todas as suas sugestões.

marcelocripe

[jazzbiker]

Hi, marcelocripe!

You can find Hyperbola OS system requirements at https://wiki.hyperbola.info/downloads, they look quite ascetic. This system works only with free software, so some hardware will not be accepted.