Tiny Core Base > TCB Q&A Forum
(Tiny)Core x86 : is there a reason not to enable PAE ?
SeventhSin:
--- Quote from: andyj on July 16, 2019, 06:26:06 PM ---What are the use cases for needing more than 4 GB on a 32-bit system in 2019?
--- End quote ---
Well, one possible use case would be to easily work-around issues such as the ones mentioned above. Allocate more RAM to the VM, build possibly won't be failing anymore.
Another possible use case would be using ephemeral systems for builds, eg. RAM only build machines, that can be easily reverted to a pristine state with a mere reboot and reconfigured on the fly by build agents. This is my current approach, not theoretical in the slightest.
And yet another possible use case is when one wants to go rampant with make -j xxx. Depending on what one builds, increasing parallelism increases RAM usage significantly but it also decreases build time. Instead of waiting 40 minutes one could only wait 10 minutes for a build to complete. This matters when time is of significance.
SeventhSin:
--- Quote from: andyj on July 16, 2019, 06:26:06 PM ---A non-PAE capable processor is going to be quite old, and the rest system it comes with will be limited as well. This is one of the use cases for TC. Requiring PAE would create at least a few orphans.
--- End quote ---
Some Wikipedia stuff:
--- Quote ---PAE was first implemented in the Intel Pentium Pro in 1995,[3] although the accompanying chipsets usually lacked support for the required extra address bits.[4]
PAE is supported by the Pentium Pro, Pentium II, Pentium III, and Pentium 4 processors. The first Pentium M family processors ("Banias") introduced in 2003 also support PAE; however, they do not show the PAE support flag in their CPUID information.[5] It was also available on AMD processors including the AMD Athlon[6][7] (although the chipsets for are limited to 32-bit addressing[8]) and later AMD processor models.
--- End quote ---
TinyCore's recommended configuration:
--- Quote ---Recommended configuration: A Pentium 2 CPU and 64 MB of RAM are recommended for Tiny Core.[5]
--- End quote ---
Enabling PAE on x86 would take supported CPUs back to Pentium Pro (1995 CPU line) and would kill this:
--- Quote ---The minimum CPU is an i486DX.[5]
--- End quote ---
.
I wonder if anyone would shed 1 (one) tear. I literally want to see 1 person still using a pre-Pentium Pro CPU nowadays. Now THAT would be something to behold! :o
PS: not that I'm positioning myself as an advocate for PAE on Core x86. It just seemed something useful to have enabled by default. However having to recompile the kernel + all the politics behind such a decision (because you know... reasons.. Linus Torvalds hates PAE & such) makes me think a Core64 ISO available to the world would be the best possible answer. One can dream. ::)
Rich:
Hi SeventhSin
I wanted to boot Tinycore from a thumb drive on an HP Proliant ML150 G6 in 32 bit mode and still take advantage of the 6 Gig of
installed RAM. I started by installing Tinycore to the thumb drive. Next I fetched modules64.gz, rootfs.gz, and vmlinuz64:
http://tinycorelinux.net/10.x/x86/release/distribution_files/
and saved them where the 32 bit kernel and initrd are stored. Then create core64.gz like this:
--- Code: ---cat rootfs.gz modules64.gz > core64.gz
--- End code ---
I have grub on my thumb drive. My menu.lst looks like this:
--- Code: ---default 1
timeout 10
title TC9_32bit
root (hd0,0)
kernel /tce/boot/vmlinuz quiet waitusb=5:UUID="1ad696eb-3913-4434-bb9e-25dd4b980c09" tce=UUID="1ad696eb-3913-4434-bb9e-25dd4b980c09" home=UUID="1ad696eb-3913-4434-bb9e-25dd4b980c09" opt=UUID="1ad696eb-3913-4434-bb9e-25dd4b980c09" printk.time=1 syslog enable_mtrr_cleanup
initrd /tce/boot/core.gz
title TC9_Core64
root (hd0,0)
kernel /tce/boot/vmlinuz64 quiet waitusb=5:UUID="1ad696eb-3913-4434-bb9e-25dd4b980c09" tce=UUID="1ad696eb-3913-4434-bb9e-25dd4b980c09" home=UUID="1ad696eb-3913-4434-bb9e-25dd4b980c09" opt=UUID="1ad696eb-3913-4434-bb9e-25dd4b980c09" printk.time=1 syslog enable_mtrr_cleanup
initrd /tce/boot/core64.gz
--- End code ---
Both core and core64 share the same /home, /opt, and tce/optional directories as well as the same onboot.lst file:
--- Code: ---firmware.tcz
aterm.tcz
fltk-1.3.tcz
flwm_topside.tcz
freetype.tcz
imlib2-bin.tcz
imlib2.tcz
libfontenc.tcz
libICE.tcz
libjpeg-turbo.tcz
libpng.tcz
libSM.tcz
libX11.tcz
libXau.tcz
libxcb.tcz
libXdmcp.tcz
libXext.tcz
libXfont.tcz
libXi.tcz
libXmu.tcz
libXpm.tcz
libXrandr.tcz
libXrender.tcz
libXt.tcz
libdrm.tcz
wbar.tcz
Xlibs.tcz
Xprogs.tcz
mc.tcz
pci-utils.tcz
curl.tcz
gzip.tcz
graphics-KERNEL.tcz
Xorg-7.7.tcz
alsa-config.tcz
alsa.tcz
alsamixergui.tcz
grabber.tcz
geany.tcz
wireshark.tcz
firefox-ESR.tcz
libavcodec.tcz
gnumeric.tcz
nfs-utils.tcz
pulseaudio.tcz
numlockx.tcz
gtk1.tcz
adwaita-icon-theme.tcz
util-linux.tcz
gparted.tcz
ntfsprogs.tcz
e2fsprogs.tcz
dosfstools.tcz
mtools.tcz
hfsprogs.tcz
tc-install-GUI.tcz
bind.tcz
usbutils.tcz
scsi-KERNEL.tcz
lsscsi.tcz
mdadm.tcz
--- End code ---
You'll note the 2 entries containing the word KERNEL. tce-load will load the version (32 or 64 bit) that matches your running kernel.
My tce/optional directory contains both versions:
--- Code: ---filesystems-4.14.10-tinycore.tcz
filesystems-4.14.10-tinycore64.tcz
graphics-4.14.10-tinycore.tcz
graphics-4.14.10-tinycore64.tcz
i2c-4.14.10-tinycore.tcz
i2c-4.14.10-tinycore64.tcz
mtd-4.14.10-tinycore.tcz
mtd-4.14.10-tinycore64.tcz
raid-dm-4.14.10-tinycore.tcz
raid-dm-4.14.10-tinycore64.tcz
scsi-4.14.10-tinycore.tcz
scsi-4.14.10-tinycore64.tcz
--- End code ---
It's just a 32 bit install running vmlinuz64 and 64 bit modules. That's all there is to it.
andyj:
If there is something you want and it doesn't already exist it may be because you're the first to want it. Instead of complaining that someone else should have come before you and paved the way, you could make what you want and contribute so there might be some pavement for the next person.
I'll be nice and ignore for now the much more likely scenario that no one else wanted it for some obscure reason like there was a better way. 8)
SeventhSin:
--- Quote from: andyj on July 16, 2019, 10:23:17 PM ---If there is something you want and it doesn't already exist it may be because you're the first to want it.
--- End quote ---
That is possible, although not certain. Maybe people wanted it but didn't dare to ask for it or didn't ask strongly enough. ::)
--- Quote from: andyj on July 16, 2019, 10:23:17 PM ---Instead of complaining
--- End quote ---
Please, no shadow boxing. Nobody's complaining, this thread is a conversation.
--- Quote from: andyj on July 16, 2019, 10:23:17 PM ---that someone else should have come before you and paved the way, you could make what you want and contribute so there might be some pavement for the next person.
--- End quote ---
What I want (I am restating here for brevity) is to be able to build non-trivial software on x86. Right now that is impossible for me due to "no space left on device" weirdness. Easy way around the aforementioned are:
a) PAE on x86 kernel
b) Core64 ISO
Both a) and b) would allow allocating more memory to ephemeral build machines. I can do both for myself, but that won't be paving the way for anyone else. I could even share a build script for b), but unless that results in an upload (for which I have no permissions) that would be a waste of my time.
--- Quote from: andyj on July 16, 2019, 10:23:17 PM ---I'll be nice
--- End quote ---
Please don't be.
--- Quote from: andyj on July 16, 2019, 10:23:17 PM ---and ignore for now the much more likely scenario
--- End quote ---
How much more likely? Abstract talk doesn't lead anywhere.
--- Quote from: andyj on July 16, 2019, 10:23:17 PM ---that no one else wanted it
--- End quote ---
Is this certain?
--- Quote from: andyj on July 16, 2019, 10:23:17 PM ---for some obscure reason like there was a better way. 8)
--- End quote ---
An unknown ("some obscure reason") plus a general abstraction ("there was a better way") add precisely zero actionable information to this conversation.
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