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Author Topic: [Solved] can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please  (Read 2995 times)

aus9

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[Solved] can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« on: April 02, 2023, 09:47:51 PM »
Hi

Done by forum post in case someone else wants to take over maintainership. Please leave grim and slurp.

Can the following packages be removed from TC64 14x and at your discretion 12x and 13x.
grim-doc
slurp-doc
scdoc, -dev & -doc
wlroots & -dev
sway, -doc & -dot
swaylock & -doc

Yes I should have linked to online man pages instead of submitting  doc TCEs.

I plan to look for another wayland desktop that does not depend on wlroots.
Thanks for reading
Gordon

« Last Edit: April 03, 2023, 09:46:43 AM by Rich »

Offline CNK

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Re: can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2023, 10:19:07 PM »
Quote
Yes I should have linked to online man pages instead of submitting doc TCEs.

Really? I like doc TCEs! There aren't enough of them IMHO. I've been caught out a few times looking at newer/older man pages online where details are different from the version available in Tiny Core and hence things go wrong and I have to check the "--help" ("-h"?) output to find out why. A -doc extension has the man pages for the actual version that's packaged - much better!

On my to-do list is to write a script that (a) checks for and downloads a -doc extension to supply the man page requested, (b) where no -doc extension is available (boo!), looks up various man page websites for the command, parses the HTML to find the version that the online man page covers, then tries to interpret the version number to find the closest match to the version of the program in Tiny Core.

Obviously (b) is much more complicated, but for lack of -doc extensions there's barely any point to writing (a) if (b) isn't there because it would be quicker on average just to jump over to a web browser in the first place (I've got five man page websites set up as Dillo search options).

OK rant over, but lack of -doc extensions is personally the thing that I dislike most about Tiny Core, so I hope it's not taken as official policy for people to leave them out.

aus9

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Re: can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2023, 12:39:32 AM »
Hi CNK

TC submissions do accept docs but the wiki says
Quote
rather than including docs in your extension, use the info file to list official online docs.

https://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/doku.php?id=wiki:creating_extensions

until you get a better reply, it might assist the server load to not have docs?

Offline Juanito

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Re: can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2023, 06:12:48 AM »
Can the following packages be removed from TC64 14x and at your discretion 12x and 13x.
grim-doc
slurp-doc
scdoc, -dev & -doc
wlroots & -dev
sway, -doc & -dot
swaylock & -doc

grim-doc, slurp-doc, scdoc-doc, sway-doc and swaylock-doc removed from 14.x repo - I prefer to keep the extensions themselves as someone will probably find them useful

Offline mocore

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Re: can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2023, 07:32:25 AM »
Quote
Yes I should have linked to online man pages instead of submitting doc TCEs.

Really? I like doc TCEs! There aren't enough of them IMHO. I've been caught out a few times looking at newer/older man pages online where details are different from the version available in Tiny Core and hence things go wrong and I have to check the "--help" ("-h"?) output to find out why. A -doc extension has the man pages for the actual version that's packaged - much better!
....
 I hope it's not taken as official policy for people to leave them out.

just read the above , posting to add  +1

docs are not (by default) bloat  :o wwwTF

+matching
source(version) & program(version) & docs(version)
*imho could be (in some cases) less of a pita


aus9

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Re: can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2023, 09:29:23 AM »
Hi Rich

post can be marked as solved thanks

Offline Rich

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Re: [Solved] can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2023, 09:47:10 AM »
Hi aus9
Done.

Offline CNK

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Re: can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2023, 06:59:04 PM »
Hi CNK

TC submissions do accept docs but the wiki says
Quote
rather than including docs in your extension, use the info file to list official online docs.

https://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/doku.php?id=wiki:creating_extensions

until you get a better reply, it might assist the server load to not have docs?

Ahh, it says that directly under the line that says that you should make a -doc extension:

Quote
Separation
Smaller extensions reduce 'bloat' in Tiny Core. To help out:
* move translations and other locale data into a locale extension (myprogram-locale.tcz)
* move documentation and help files into a doc extension (myprogram-doc.tcz)
* rather than including docs in your extension, use the info file to list official online docs.
* move headers and static libraries to a dev extension (myprogram-dev.tcz)

So I think it's pretty clear that the Wiki instructs you to leave out docs from the myprogram.tcz extension, but recommends that you do make a separate myprogram-doc.tcz extension, as well as linking to the docs in the info file (or maybe only do the latter if you didn't bother to make a separate -doc extension?).

I guess maybe you could read "rather than including docs in your extension" as a poorly written version of "rather than including a docs extension", and conclude that the third dot-point overrides the second, but I think that's assuming a lot. It's certainly not something that occoured to me while reading that page.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2023, 07:01:09 PM by CNK »

Offline CNK

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Re: can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2023, 07:41:50 PM »
+matching
source(version) & program(version) & docs(version)
*imho could be (in some cases) less of a pita

Do you mean download the source code and extract the man pages from that? That could be a better step (b) for my script than trying lots of man page websites and picking the closest version. It would be very inefficient, but the script could generate a local -doc extension so that it only has to be done once, and maybe it could have a cut-off for source archive size so it only downloads sources under a few MB.

Still some programs generate man pages from other formats at build time, so it might be too hard to make that method work for them. It's worth trying though, when I finally get around to this.

Offline mocore

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Re: can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2023, 08:33:34 AM »
Still some programs generate man pages from other formats at build time, so it might be too hard to make that method work for them. It's worth trying though, when I finally get around to this.

i like in general this idea!

it reminded me of several other projects over time iv found which centered around doc/man page index/searching
this one in particular https://github.com/sunaku/dasht imho worth a mention ( because its all sh script xD )

also generally (wrt documentation) im reminded of a section from: The Daemon, the GNU and the Penguin - Chapter 3. The Users
~ http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050414215646742


specifically
Quote from: "Peter Salus - The Daemon, the GNU and the Penguin - Chapter 3. The Users" 
Once again, the proverbial cat was out of the bag.

Over the years, over nearly two decades, John Lions' Code and Commentary became the most copied work in computing. They carry the appropriate copyright notices and the restriction to licensees, but there was no way that Western Electric could stem their circulation. They were just too valuable.

Offline mocore

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Re: can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2023, 12:20:11 PM »
Do you mean download the source code and extract the man pages from that?
what i was generally intending to convey was ( while thinking specifically of guake http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,13262.msg74931.html#msg74931 )

was that tracking (some times braking changes) between a programs  versions *&* (dependent) library  versions (available in repo / needed to build )
*and* the relevant version's of documentation
can be/(has been) abit of a challenge , esp as docs wont necessarily be up to date 

more so (imho) with the docs online  which may only be published/relevant to the `latest`  version or branch of what ever

at least this was the case afair with guake , and after id got it(latest-current) working , next update pulled in *more* / other (unpkged)deps  :-\
...hopefully things id like to run are more established/stable now  ;)

Offline mocore

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Re: [Solved] can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2023, 04:57:29 PM »
more so (imho) with the docs online  which may only be published/relevant to the `latest`  version or branch of what ever

... also bug/workaround/patch issues blur somewhat into  documentation  ???

perhaps my ramblings are merely more ... laments

[quote ]
 internet forums since time immemorial have been littered with the laments of those who came before.
 [/quote]
https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2023/building-toolchains-with-guix/
« Last Edit: April 04, 2023, 05:05:13 PM by mocore »

aus9

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Re: [Solved] can you remove the following TCEs from 14x please
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2023, 10:05:43 PM »
to any poster already posted here....and others as needed.

I am submitting an update to man-db which is a man page reader. As we are close to going final, I expect it may take a few weeks to land.
Sometimes Juanito is too fast for me.

1) Does TC64 lack a better man page reader, name it please

2) I plan to update man-pages (the actual man pages from kernel.org)
but I plan to ask that man-pages-doc be deleted on update.

man-pages-doc are text files of above. Although the saving in server space may be small....IMHO you read man-pages with a man page viewer.

Any complaints?  ::)