General TC > Tiny Core Netbooks
TC on an old "ultrabook" Sony VAIO VGN-T150 - CF as HDD, USB boot?
MX372:
Hello all,
First off, I enjoy making old things useful, and I hate to see something useful get wasted, not used, or thrown in a landfill. Having said that, here's the jist of my post: I'm looking for advice on installing TC on a 10-year-old laptop, and I have some questions about using a CF as an IDE drive and installing TC on either the CF or a USB stick. Read along for more detail, if you are interested......
I have a (circa 2005) Sony Vaio VGN-T150 "ultrabook" that I've had since new. Originally it came with XP, but as well all know it has reached end of life and wasn't necessarily a "light" OS. The specs of this tiny laptop:
Intel Pentium M ULV 733 at 1.1ghz/2MB cache/400mhz FSB, 1GB (max) RAM, 1280x768 widescreen 10.6" display, 40GB 1.8" HDD, PCMCIA type II card slot, 2xUSB 2.0 ports, 1xFireWire400 port, Intel 2200 wireless, Bluetooth, DVDRW/CDRW Superdrive, MSPro slot, and a 56k modem. Quite the little powerhouse in it's day, but it's day has long passed (it's 10 years old!). It had a 6+ hour battery life when new, but the original battery is good now for only about 45 minutes, so it needs a new ($40) battery. I also recently replaced the keyboard due to a broken F5 key ($25).
This laptop has been a great machine for me, but in about 2008 I won a Panasonic ToughBook CF-19 in a technician competition and started using it, so the Sony started collecting dust. I recently revived it and am considering selling the TB on ebay and using the Sony as my daily laptop again. Why? It has an optical drive built in (TB does not); it's battery life is much longer with a new battery (both need new batteries, and the Sony's is cheaper too); it weighs less than 3 lbs (TB is more like 5 or so); screen is a widescreen and overall better. Now, the downside is that it has less computing power, RAM, and HDD space than the TB. Currently, both are running LXLE (12.04 on the Sony; 14.04 on the TB), and I've all but ditched Windows of any flavor (I still have a desktop w/Win 7, and my work laptop from my employer uses 7). I'm slowly learning Linux, and have tested various distros on the TB: Lubuntu, Xubuntu, LXLE have been the ones I've liked so far. Have not tried TC (yet), and find it interesting.
My goal is to have a general-use laptop that I can surf the net, watch YT videos, DVD's, run some programming IDE's and such (C++, Python, Arduino, RaspberryPi, etc.), wordprocessing, spreadsheets, powerpoint (Office-type apps), and general computing tasks. If I can also do video editing, burn/rip DVD's, video capture and such then even better, but if I need to I can use my desktop for that stuff. Since the Sony is old, obviously a lightweight linux distro makes sense - and by lightweight I mean minimal resource consumption. OF course that may limit the applications that can be used. Also, I think using a lightweight distro makes the laptop run faster and be more responsive (more like a new computer that is running a not-so-lightweight OS). This is where TC comes in (I think/hope).
I have considered purchasing a 128gb SSD (50-pin CF style, as that is what the Sony takes, 1.8" FF) to gain more space and speed; cost is about $95 (and does it make sense to spend $95 on a 10-yr-old laptop with a specialty HDD?). The other options would be to use a CF card in place of the HDD (in IDE mode) as a cheap SSD; I happen to have a few laying around (512mb and 4gb), and cost = $0. Not sure if I would need to install TC as if on a USB drive if installing to the CF, or as a typical HDD install. Obviously, a CF card is flash memory, and has a limited number of write cycles, which is my concern with using it as a HDD replacement, especially if I'm giving up a lot of storage space (the tradeoff being that it will be faster than the HDD, use less power, and cost zero). I can always use a USB drive for more storage (I can easily add a 64gb micro USB drive and I'd have more storage than I do now).
The other option would be to keep the HDD and have it boot to USB, and have persistance enabled to save all my settings, apps and work to the HDD - except that the BIOS doesn't support USB boot devices. I read that there is a program called Plop that could be a work-around - anyone familiar with this, and could I use it to force a boot to a USB drive? My understanding is that TC is fast b/c it loads completely in RAM, so I'm ok with a slightly longer boot time in exchange for speed when running.
I'm pretty happy so far with LXLE, but it does experience some sluggishness sometimes if I have multiple Firefox tabs open and other apps running. I was thinking that TC would likely run faster, given it uses less RAM, leaving more of what's left for FF and the other apps. This is really about getting the most performance I can from this laptop, meeting my needs and keeping the cost down. I will have a total (after I get a new battery) of $65 into putting this laptop back in service. Another $95 for an SSD brings it to $160, and some might say a new netbook for $200 would have been a wiser investment. Of course, right now I'm at $25 for the new keyboard, and I could still sell it on ebay and at least break even on that.
I'm open to all comments and advice. Thanks for reading my long post!
nitram:
--- Quote ---I have a (circa 2005) Sony Vaio VGN-T150 "ultrabook" that I've had since new. Originally it came with XP, but as well all know it has reached end of life and wasn't necessarily a "light" OS. The specs of this tiny laptop:
Intel Pentium M ULV 733 at 1.1ghz/2MB cache/400mhz FSB, 1GB (max) RAM, 1280x768 widescreen 10.6" display, 40GB 1.8" HDD, PCMCIA type II card slot, 2xUSB 2.0 ports, 1xFireWire400 port, Intel 2200 wireless, Bluetooth, DVDRW/CDRW Superdrive, MSPro slot, and a 56k modem. Quite the little powerhouse in it's day, but it's day has long passed (it's 10 years old!). It had a 6+ hour battery life when new, but the original battery is good now for only about 45 minutes, so it needs a new ($40) battery. I also recently replaced the keyboard due to a broken F5 key ($25).
--- End quote ---
Those are pretty decent specs. I'm posting this on an 800MHz desktop with 512MB RAM that runs an Ubuntu Squeeze-based OS, Puppy Linux and Tiny Core 6 quite well. It comes down to your expectations. If you expect instant response for all your applications then you might be disappointed but it won't be Tiny Core's fault, rather the dated hardware. You'll have a hard time finding anything leaner than Tiny Core.
--- Quote ---My goal is to have a general-use laptop that I can surf the net, watch YT videos, DVD's, run some programming IDE's and such (C++, Python, Arduino, RaspberryPi, etc.), wordprocessing, spreadsheets, powerpoint (Office-type apps), and general computing tasks. If I can also do video editing, burn/rip DVD's, video capture and such then even better, but if I need to I can use my desktop for that stuff. Since the Sony is old, obviously a lightweight linux distro makes sense - and by lightweight I mean minimal resource consumption. OF course that may limit the applications that can be used. Also, I think using a lightweight distro makes the laptop run faster and be more responsive (more like a new computer that is running a not-so-lightweight OS). This is where TC comes in (I think/hope).
--- End quote ---
Tiny Core should be able to perform most of those tasks but i'm not sure about all. Take a look at the Tiny Core repositories to ensure all of the software you desire is readily available. You can create your own extensions for additional software, although this might be too much effort if you simply want an OS that provides everything you want with minimal hassle. Could be wrong but at this time i believe Tiny Core versions 4 and 5 may have more software available than version 6, which was just recently released.
More experienced and advanced Tiny Core users will be able to provide better advice.
curaga:
Why do you require USB boot? Installing normally to the HD should work fine (in TC speak, usb stick and hd installs are the same, both load to RAM). Replacing the disk with either CF or SSD won't affect runtime speed if you load applications to RAM, except in the few cases when operating on data there (videos, etc.). It would only affect boot speed.
On the browser being sluggish, it's usually not from a lack of RAM, but from overly heavy web pages. Disabling ads, javascript (noscript extension) should help.
Lee:
--- Quote ---First off, I enjoy making old things useful, and I hate to see something useful get wasted, not used, or thrown in a landfill. ... advice on installing TC on a 10-year-old laptop, and I have some questions about using a CF as an IDE drive and installing TC on either the CF or a USB stick.
--- End quote ---
I feel the same way about old things useful and not loading up the landfills with perfectly good computers - unfortunately my basement is a testimony to that attitude! Anybody want some servers that are old enough to get their own driver's licenses?
I have no experience with the Sony Vaio line so I can't comment on any compatibility issues, but the CPU/memory/storage specs sound much like a netbook that's half that age - which I use regularly with TC and it's great!.
You don't mention it, but I suppose that box has a working ethernet port? - wired internet makes the initial setup simpler.
With a single core 1GHz cpu that machine won't exactly be a screamer but it shouldn't be painfully slow for most tasks. I suspect video editing and/or gaming would stress it a bit.
There's no real downside to booting from a USB stick if the machine supports doing so (assuming USB 2.0, not 1.x) but, unless you want to leave the HD untouched and/or it's not formatted with a suitable filesystem, there's no real downside to doing a frugal install on the HD - TC doesn't much care what boot device you use, but the tce directory (usually also on the boot device) should be on a suitable filesystem.
If the HD is working reliably, I wouldn't replace it with an ssd/cf, at least until it fails. You -do- have current backups, I presume? If that drive's still working after ten years, it might be good for another ten... or not. :)
--- Quote ---I'm pretty happy so far with LXLE, but it does experience some sluggishness sometimes if I have multiple Firefox tabs open and other apps running. I was thinking that TC would likely run faster, given it uses less RAM, leaving more of what's left for FF and the other apps. This is really about getting the most performance I can from this laptop, meeting my needs and keeping the cost down. I will have a total (after I get a new battery) of $65 into putting this laptop back in service.
--- End quote ---
Multiple browser tabs and other apps, depending on what apps and what's in those tabs and how many of them, can load down most any system. :(
Having already invested $25 in the keyboard, I'd probably replace the battery, then stop. Of course it all depends on your attitude re. money and your on-hand supply of same... my "disposable income" is quite limited, so I probably would have worked around the broken F5 key and deferred replacing both the keyboard and battery.
MX372:
@ nitram - good advice regarding checking the repositories, thanks, I really hadn't thought of that (seems obvious now)!
@ curaga - I don't require USB boot, actually. What I want is to eliminate as many bottlenecks as possible, and hard drive access times on an old 1.8"/4200rpm drive are I'm sure slower than a USB 2.0 flash memory device (I could be wrong about that though), so my thought was if I booted from USB I could use the HDD for just data storage. I guess with TC it wouldn't really matter, since the entire OS and apps are loaded into RAM. On a different OS it might make a noticeable difference. As for the suggestions on disabling browser features, that's true and would speed things up I'm sure. Thanks for the advice.
@Lee - it does have an ethernet port, I didn't mention that because I assumed that it was pretty standard for that era machine (esp. one with wireless and BT). I do have backups of all my data. I really wanted to replace the HDD primarily to accomplish 2 things: speed up data access and increase storage capacity. I did work around the broken key for a while, but it started to bug me, and I found this like new one on ebay - I thought $25 was a decent price.
Thanks for the responses guys. I wonder if TC will be faster/more responsive than LXLE is, for the things I routinely do (even if I can't do some of the more advanced things like video editing, that's ok, I have my desktop for that)? I guess the only way to know is to try it out. Having said that - If I try it from a live CD (since it loads completely in RAM), will it be representative of what it will be like once installed on the hard drive? I assume it would. I know for Lubuntu/Xubuntu/LXLE there was a noticeable delay when running of a live cd. Never tried via USB (since this machine won't boot from USB), so don't know if that is different.
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