dCore Import Debian Packages to Mountable SCE extensions > dCore X86
importsce "add-on".sces based on "base".sces
Jason W:
I see how what you are wanting could be done, simply download and merge what is not already installed by a running sce. Simply add on another layer. The problem is that would create a web of dependent sces and once one of them is taken from sceboot.lst, the system is broken. That, and one would have to know which packages are smaller than others so they could start with the smaller ones first. And then those sce's would have to be loaded in exactly the same order as they were imported or there would be missing libraries or files possible.
The only advantage I see is saving HD or flash media storage space. What is your goal, a lean and clean system where nothing is duplicated in RAM or simply smaller storage media space requirements? Nothing is duplicated in the running system, loading one sce that contains an xorg and then another that also contains it does not require any more RAM.
netnomad:
--- Quote ---The only advantage I see is saving HD or flash media storage space. What is your goal, a lean and clean system where nothing is duplicated in RAM or simply smaller storage media space requirements? Nothing is duplicated in the running system, loading one sce that contains an xorg and then another that also contains it does not require any more RAM.
--- End quote ---
hi jason w,
most of the time i need just X, a browser, a mail-agent, mc and ssh.
for this scenario i need a fast booting, lean system that is easy to update, to clone or to modify.
i think there is a difference between 10s boottime or around 40-60s,
around 300mb of ram or almost all my 1gb that has to swap and so on.
if i need libreoffice, gimp or multimedia than it's o.k. to wait another 10s to load the extension,
then it's o.k. that more ram is needed for that single package,
but the unneeded packages should not bloat my system.
the main reason is that i want to avoid to put everything in one sce
that could be rarely needed once in the next 12 months ;)
--- Quote ---That, and one would have to know which packages are smaller than others so they could start with the smaller ones first. And then those sce's would have to be loaded in exactly the same order as they were imported or there would be missing libraries or files possible.
--- End quote ---
i think that the users that are interested in this option will learn to understand the way how to use it :)
by the way some distributions use a similiar approach...
first a core-package is loaded, then a package with the x-windows-infrastructure,
afterwards you can choose between different packages that include windowsmanagers or desktop-environments,
then there is a choice of different browser-packages,
later you can choose between a small office-package like abiword or the big libreoffice-suite,
and at the very end eventually a development-tool-set is loaded.
with this approach the user can decide between a non-X-base system, different desktop-environments, browsers, office-solutions and the option of development without the disadvantages of an full-blown livesystem that includes all choices that could be needed some time.
i think that it's not so difficult to start with a base.sce, then package in the next stage something like desktop.sce based on base.sce and then package something like multimedia.sce or office.sce based on these two.
perhaps it won't be the most common way to use dCore, but it could be a suitable option.
thank you for all your considerations, ideas and help.
netnomad:
hi jason w,
i want to give you some facts:
i boot with syslinux the actual dCore 5.14.02.11 and my basic micocore 4.7.7:
###
dCore 5.14.02.11:
bootime displayed in the boot-messages 36,69s
real boottime from syslinux to fluxbox: 1:18 min
used ram 538000 from 1gb
loaded sces:
/dev/loop0 14M 14M 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/original-modules-3.8.13-tinycore
/dev/loop1 362M 362M 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/mydesktop
mydesktop includes:
Xprogs
wbar
xorg-all
grep
bash
screen
mc
ssh
iptables
fluxbox
fail2ban
laptop-mode-tools
pm-utils
iceweasel
icedove
cups
cups-driver-gutenprint
hplip-cups
jpilot
gnupg
rsync
epdfview
gthumb
xvnc4viewer
gimp
importupdatecheck
alsa-base
alsa-utils
alsamixergui
cdparanoia
faad
lame
vlc
nmap
lvm2
cryptsetup
xsane
after loading icecat in dCore 5.14.02.11 and doing some actions my ram changed to
used ram 762800 from 1gb
after loading thunderbird
used ram 917000 from 1gb
###
microcore 4.7.7
bootime displayed in the boot-messages 3,79s
real boottime from syslinux to fluxbox: 0:29min
used ram 107300 from 1gb
loaded tczs:
/dev/loop0 288.0K 288.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/fltk-1.1.10
/dev/loop1 3.2M 3.2M 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/Xlibs
/dev/loop2 128.0K 128.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/Xprogs
/dev/loop3 364.0K 364.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/Xvesa
/dev/loop4 1.3M 1.3M 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/libiconv
/dev/loop5 76.0K 76.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/expat2
/dev/loop6 132.0K 132.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/fontconfig
/dev/loop7 656.0K 656.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/Xorg-7.6-lib
/dev/loop8 668.0K 668.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/fluxbox
/dev/loop9 36.0K 36.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/wbar
/dev/loop10 8.0K 8.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/915resolution
/dev/loop11 140.0K 140.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/kmaps
/dev/loop12 12.0K 12.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/actkbd
/dev/loop13 552.0K 552.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/myfonts
/dev/loop14 1.4M 1.4M 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/openssl-1.0.0
/dev/loop15 840.0K 840.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/libssl-0.9.8
/dev/loop16 60.0K 60.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/libssh2
/dev/loop17 12.0K 12.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/libffi
/dev/loop18 1.4M 1.4M 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/glib2
/dev/loop19 396.0K 396.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/slang
/dev/loop20 1.1M 1.1M 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/mc
/dev/loop21 12.0K 12.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/ncurses-common
/dev/loop22 148.0K 148.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/ncurses
/dev/loop23 392.0K 392.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/bash
/dev/loop24 380.0K 380.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/screen
/dev/loop25 304.0K 304.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/gcc_libs
/dev/loop26 876.0K 876.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/openssh
/dev/loop27 316.0K 316.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/netfilter-3.0.21-tinycore
/dev/loop28 448.0K 448.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/iptables
/dev/loop29 28.0K 28.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/bzip2-lib
/dev/loop30 328.0K 328.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/sqlite3
/dev/loop31 8.6M 8.6M 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/python
/dev/loop32 92.0K 92.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/fail2ban
/dev/loop33 28.0K 28.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/cpufrequtils
/dev/loop34 28.0K 28.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/acpid
/dev/loop35 80.0K 80.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/cpufreqd
/dev/loop36 60.0K 60.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/laptop-mode-tools
/dev/loop37 164.0K 164.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/libx86
/dev/loop38 24.0K 24.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/libpci
/dev/loop39 316.0K 316.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/suspend-utils
/dev/loop40 4.0K 4.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/mirrors
/dev/loop41 28.0K 28.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/ipager
/dev/loop42 12.0K 12.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/ntpclient
/dev/loop43 88.0K 88.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/pdnsd
/dev/loop44 220.0K 220.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/libevent
/dev/loop45 36.0K 36.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/redsocks
/dev/loop46 16.0K 16.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/xautolock-2.2
/dev/loop47 8.0K 8.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/xtrlock
/dev/loop48 4.0K 4.0K 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/xautolock_meta
installed tczs:
915resolution
acpid
actkbd
atk
bash
bzip2-lib
cairo
cpufreqd
cpufrequtils
expat2
fail2ban
fltk-1.1.10
fluxbox
fontconfig
gcc_libs
gdk-pixbuf2
glib2
graphics-libs-1
gtk2
icecat
ipager
iptables
kmaps
laptop-mode-tools
libasound
libevent
libffi
libiconv
liblzma
libpci
libssh2
libssl-0.9.8
libx86
libxcb
libxml2
mc
mirrors
myfonts
ncurses
ncurses-common
netfilter-3.0.21-tinycore
nspr
ntpclient
openssh
openssl-1.0.0
pango
pdnsd
pixman
python
redsocks
screen
shared-mime-info
slang
sqlite3
suspend-utils
wbar
xautolock-2.2
xautolock_meta
Xlibs
Xorg-7.6-lib
Xprogs
xtrlock
Xvesa
after loading icecat in 4.7.7 and doing some actions my ram changed to
used ram 362300 from 1gb
after loading thunderbird
used ram 524500 from 1gb
Jason W:
I am open to options that are obtainable without costing performance for everyone else. But to make dCore modular is not as simple as it sounds and would basically require a rewrite from scratch. We did try at first the modular approach, but the performance of the import routine was slow and Debian packages have circular dependencies that lock up our dependency routine.
dCore certainly uses some more resources than standard Core due to the size and dependencies of Debian packages, but please use the "cache-clear" command before comparing RAM between the two systems. I am sure the results would be more comparable after clearing the memory cache, use cache-clear and post the results again.
As for the boot time, I assure you that if we used the modular approach to dCore that it would be a much longer boot, SCE cut down that time very significantly.
And you are comparing two different package sets. The dCore install has the heavyweight VLC , xsane, gthumb with it's large dependency list, epdfview, gimp (another large one) and xorg-all, the full Xorg package. It is not a fair comparison, the only somewhat large package in your tcz installation is the icecat browser.
Choose a similar package list for both tcz and sce, use cache-clear once booted, and I am very interested in those results in RAM occupation, boot time, and total package size.
yoshi314:
--- Quote from: Jason W on February 25, 2014, 08:17:24 AM ---I am open to options that are obtainable without costing performance for everyone else.
--- End quote ---
what if we could specify just one package as base for another one. And with no recursive deps.
e.g. i start with bare dCore. and i make xorg-all. It probaby has many libraries in that other packages could reuse.
now i make , e.g. i3 package (the window manager), by doing something like
--- Code: ---importsce i3 --base xorg-all
--- End code ---
which will work like import i3 , but will only include files not provided by xorg-all sce.
However, doing
--- Code: ---importsce something --base i3
--- End code ---
should fail with "i3 is not a standard sce, can't be used as dependency".
For simplicity, only one package can be specified as argument for --base , and it has to be standard sce package (doesn't depend on any other sce).
So you would make one basic package, and base arbitrary number of packages on it. But there would be only one level of hierarchy and no circular deps.
For faster package generation, classic sce's could be accompanied by list of deb's that it was made from.
-----------------------------
I use dCore on dell c400 laptop and generation of SCE's takes a while, even though i mostly need i3, geeqie, geany, audacious, dwb browser, elinks and few cli tools.
If i want to add an app to it, rebuild of this one big sce is slow. Making separate sce is also fairly slow and reuses lots of files of original sce.
I would happily switch to clasic tinycore, but i cannot get dwb to build on it with new webkit, and other browsers and not very lightweight in comparison. I would probably have to stick with core 4.x. dCore has just way more software available more easily.
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