RFC: To RUBY or NOT RUBY

[rms46]

Hello All,
If you are asked to introduce the idea of scripting to newbies with only "You Know What" operating systems experience, what will you choose:
1) the traditional "bash, awk, and sed" set, or
2) Ruby, or
3) other what runs on TCL (specify)
Thanks.
 

[bmarkus]

Hello All,
If you are asked to introduce the idea of scripting to newbies with only "You Know What" operating systems experience, what will you choose:
1) the traditional "bash, awk, and sed" set, or
2) Ruby, or
3) other what runs on TCL (specify)
Thanks.

Python

[tinypoodle]

I'd replace the "bash" in 1) by "sh" for portability.

Using the expression "TCL" in 3) might create confusion because there is a scripting language named "tcl".
(I can remember a few years ago having been corrected by a member of the team not to use "tcl" as an acronym for "tinycorelinux" to avoid misunderstandings)

[Lee]

to introduce the idea of scripting to newbies

I would use sh instead of bash, per tinypoodle's suggestion, however I would be unlikely to include awk and sed as they each deserve a separate intro of their own.

Having said that, I'll have to admit that I know nothing of ruby and very little of lua or python (or sed or awk, for that matter).

I'm thinking that there's not a lot one can't do with the "old-time" unix utilities if one just puts in the time to learn them - sed, awk, tcl, tk, et cetera.

What are the strengths of ruby, python, lua and such?  What do they "bring to the table" that's new or easier?  (I'm omitting perl because of a long standing personal bias.  If I ever revisit perl, I may just come to love it.)

[rms46]

Python

Sure, Python is a GREAT language and "cleaner" than Perl. However, is it easy to be taught to the ones with not much programming interest?

[rms46]

I'd replace the "bash" in 1) by "sh" for portability.

For "TinyCore", how standard is busybox's  "sh"?
BTW: I still have no idea on how to use busybox's "vi", and therefore worry if there will be unknown glitches of "sh".

[gerald_clark]

How does your inability to learn vi suggest there might be problems with ash?

[rms46]

How does your inability to learn vi suggest there might be problems with ash?

I am not sure on how this is related to "ash". Does "busybox" implement "ash"?
And, yes: I am having problem to learn/understand busybox since it is quite different compared to the real commands. E.g. busybox's "vi" in Tinycore even do not implement a simple "u"/ undo.

[tinypoodle]

Alternatively you could compile bash with "--enable-strict-posix-default --enable-xpg-echo-default".

[althalus]

Python

Sure, Python is a GREAT language and "cleaner" than Perl. However, is it easy to be taught to the ones with not much programming interest?

Python reads almost like pseudo code. I would say that should make it very easy for a good teacher. Also, a good number of schools and universities are using python to introduce programming concepts to students. I'd say that's a pretty good endorsement.

But... I would ask what is the goal? At the end of the course/session/whatever, what do the newbies need to be able to do? Which language is best for the tasks and skills you want to prepare them for? I would highly recommend python over ruby, but that might be my personal preferences. Bash, on the other hand, will force your rookies to learn a little bit about linux and how it works.

[vinnie]

if the objective is to control a system, sh is irreplaceable for linux, otherwise between python, perl, ruby ​​and other competitors there are many valid alternatives