Just Beginning (urgent)

[ickla10]

Ok. If i decide to install an operating system like tiny core to my ipod would it function normally? Because that's the only other portable device i have beside my camera which won't connect to my pc .

PS: When i  say "function normally" i mean my ipod would. like it wouldnt mess up how it functions.

[h-munster]

I am likewise having problems retaining apps and data files, and understanding the basic structure/system of Tiny Core.

I have a Dell Mini 9, and I am making a trial run booting with a bootable USB flash drive.

I can't install files nor retain data to the USB drive.  On the USB drive, I would like to store extensions and data in the "PPR/TCZ" mode

Here is the syslinux.cfg on the USB drive:

Code: [Select]

default vesamenu.c32
prompt 0
menu title UNetbootin
timeout 100

label unetbootindefault
menu label Default
kernel /ubnkern
append initrd=/ubninit quiet

label ubnentry0
menu label tinycore
kernel /boot/bzImage
append initrd=/boot/tinycore.gz tce=sda1/apps home=sda1/home quiet
I am booting to the "tinycore" entry.

I need to install and run the 915resolution extension, the Broadcom wireless module (which has been provided by Robert Shingledecker), plus I need to get the sound working.

I would like to get all of these things operational with the USB stick, before I wipe Ubuntu off of my Mini 9's internal flash drive to install Tiny Core.

Thanks for your help.

[roberts]

From: http://tinycorelinux.com/faq.html
 tinycore waitusb=X                  Wait X seconds for slow USB devices.

Try adding waitusb=5 to your boot options.

OSS sound works great on Dell Mini 9.

You don't need to wipe out Ubuntu to run Tiny Core from SSD.
Just copy bzImage and tinycore.gz to your boot directory and make an entry to /mnt/hda2/boot/grub/menu.lst

[h-munster]

Thank you for the suggestion on the "waitusb" boot code.  It seemed to help in retention of the apps and data.  I was aware of it before, but I didn't remember that it had an affect on the persistence ability.  There are so many little points to remember scattered across so many different forum posts.

The "home=sda1/home" boot code seemed to have no effect -- nothing was saved into that directory.  Of course, everything data-wise went into the mydata.tgz file.  I would really like for all data files to go into a designated directory(s), without any archiving/compression.

I had trouble trying to install firefox.tcz and gtk1 and gtk2.  Downloading Firefox always stalled at some point (at atk.tcz?).  I tried uninstalling all extensions with tcz-uninstall.tce. It didn't seem to work.  I was able to delete the TCZ extensions directly, but I still couldn't get Firefox to fully install.  So, I wiped the USB stick clean, and reinstalled TC.  I'll try to install Firefox again.

I am still unclear on the concepts-of/differences-between "backup" and "restore" and how they relate to the "backup" check-box in the shutdown dialog, and how they relate to using TCZ vs. TCE extensions, and how they relate to the various bootcodes ("local=", "tce=", etc.), and how they relate to "/opt/.filetool.lst" and mydata.tgz.

Seems complex.

I am looking forward to trying "bzImage" and "tinycore.gz" in the SSD boot directory.

Thanks.

[tobiaus]

I am still unclear on the concepts-of/differences-between "backup" and "restore" and how they relate to the "backup" check-box in the shutdown dialog,

the boot option restore=partition (or, partition/folder) tells tc where the restore file can be found.

if the backup checkbox is checked, it will update the restore file before shutting down. otherwise any changes you made to files and settings will disappear on reboot...

and how they relate to using TCZ vs. TCE extensions,

the checkbox and restore= option is unrelated to tce/tcz's you've added, which will be saved anyway (if you have a persistent tce folder. only the tce=option is relevant.)

and how they relate to the various bootcodes ("local=", "tce=", etc.),

the tce option says where your persistent folder for tce's is kept. you do not need to have one, unless you want to keep the extensions from one boot to another, which many people do. local is more complicated, i don't ever use local but some people like it.

and how they relate to "/opt/.filetool.lst"

.filetool.lst tells backup what paths/files to backup.
.xfiletool.lst tells it things to avoid. for example you may tell filetool to backup all of /home/tc but then tell xfiletool "don't backup /home/tc/.mozilla/firefox/cache" (which i'm not sure is the real name of the cache folder but you probably wouldn't want to back up the cache folder.)

and mydata.tgz.

good example of something that seems like one more complicated detail that isn't. very simply, mydata.tgz -is- the backup file.

Seems complex.

it's evolved over time, most of these ideas were developed and implemented by robert in dsl too, so though tc is new, many people were familiar with most of these options already, even if "tce" had another name.

[h-munster]

Thank you, tobiaus, for the explanations on the Tiny Core system of persistency.  Such descriptions are invaluable to someone trying to learn the system.

I guess if one was around when the Tiny Core persistency elements evolved, the structure of the persistency system is clear.  For me, the system is a little difficult to comprehend.

The following statements represent my understanding of the Tiny Core persistency system, after gathering info from the various forum posts, FAQs, and TC web pages.  Please feel free to correct, comment on or expound upon these statements:

• The boot option "restore=partition" (or "restore=partition/directory") tells Tiny Core where to find "mydata.tgz" archive.

• "mydata.tgz" is the only name that can be used for the "backup" and "restore" archive.
  

• All retained files and folders are contained in the "mydata.tgz" archive -- one cannot store data in independent, unarchived and uncompressed files and folders, unless one uses the "local=partition" and "home=partition" options (mentioned below).

• For any data/files to be retained, the "restore=partition" boot option must be specified, AND the "backup" checkbox in the "shutdown" dialog must be checked.

• The "tce=partition" (or "tce=partition/directory") option tells Tiny Core where to find the partition (and/or directory) that contains the extensions to be retained.

• The name of the directory in "tce=partition/directory" is determined by the user.

• The "tce=partition" (or "tce=partition/directory") option must be specified for Tiny Core to automatically retain extensions.

• The "local=partition" saves Tiny Core to the specified partition as a standard installation, to a directory that is automatically named "tclocal."

• The "local=partition" can also save Tiny Core to a "loop back" file.  (I am not sure how the name of this file is designated.)

• A "local=partition/directory" option is not possible, since the only possible directory name for the "local=*" option is "tclocal."

• The ".filetool.lst" and ".xfiletool.lst" files dictate which data/config files/folders are retained or deleted.

• The ".filetool.lst" and ".xfiletool.lst" files reside within the "mydata.tgz" archive.

• The "home=partition" option does not work without a specified "local=partition" option.

• The "home=partition" option automatically creates a "/home/tc" directory that is somehow (and for some reason) linked to a mounted partition/directory named "/mnt/hdXY/tchome".

Thanks.

[roberts]

It appears that you failed to read or perhaps comphrend Core Concepts. I will address your statements by quoting Core Concepts.

The boot option "restore=partition" (or "restore=partition/directory") tells Tiny Core where to find "mydata.tgz" archive.

"mydata.tgz" is the only name that can be used for the "backup" and "restore" archive.

All retained files and folders are contained in the "mydata.tgz" archive -- one cannot store data in independent, unarchived and uncompressed files and folders, unless one uses the "local=partition" and "home=partition" options (mentioned below).

For any data/files to be retained, the "restore=partition" boot option must be specified, AND the "backup" checkbox in the "shutdown" dialog must be checked.

The ".filetool.lst" and ".xfiletool.lst" files dictate which data/config files/folders are retained or deleted.

The ".filetool.lst" and ".xfiletool.lst" files reside within the "mydata.tgz" archive.

What you havw written is not correct. There is much more including autoscanning. Many boot codes are not required as explained below.

Backup/Restore
After setting up your new system, you will want to save your settings. There is a file called
/opt/.filetool.lst. It is a simple text file of files and directories listed one per line using a full path that the user wants to save/restore. Use any of the GUI tools provided on the Tools menu or any editors available via extensions or vi to change/update (e.g., select Beaver, then open /opt/.filetool.lst).

The default is to backup the entire home/tc directory. However, one can choose to selectively backup only certain files. However it is important to note that the entry /opt/.filetool.lst must NOT be removed from the .filetool.lst as this provides for persistence for the .filetool.lst itself.

Also note that the capability exists to exclude files from the backup with the file /opt/.xfiletool.lst. Adding entries to this file will exclude them from the backup. Cache and other files are in the default
/opt/.xfiletool.lst.

The backup will be written to a file called "mydata.tgz". You can initially select the storage device by using the boot option of: restore=hdXY or after boot, by selecting "Backup/Restore" from the "Panel". Your backup will be automatically searched for and restored during subsequent booting. Once a mydata.tgz has been successfully created, the boot option may be omitted. Autoscan, once again, is there to support "hands free" booting. And as before, always specifying the boot option speeds your boot time.

Additionally you may add a directory to the location of the backup, e.g., restore=hdXY/a_directory This will allow the backup file "mydata.tgz" to be placed in a directory. Using a directory also means that you must always specify it via its boot code. You can skip using your backup with the boot option of norestore.

These options together with a local .xsession provide the user with much more control of their preferred environment. For example, by editing the .xsession you can start up your favorite X-Windows programs. You can start non-Window programs by editing the .profile and then adding it to your /opt/.filetool.lst. You can even load additional modules and system-specific required files by editing the /opt/bootlocal.sh file and then adding it to your filetool.lst.

The "tce=partition" (or "tce=partition/directory") option tells Tiny Core where to find the partition (and/or directory) that contains the extensions to be retained.

The name of the directory in "tce=partition/directory" is determined by the user.

The "tce=partition" (or "tce=partition/directory") option must be specified for Tiny Core to automatically retain extensions.

Not true. The boot code is not required as you have ignored autoscanning of 'tce' directory.

Once a PPR has been setup via a one time only boot code of tce=hdXY all subsequent booting will load, install, or mount your PPR collection. Even this boot code can be dropped. If no boot option specifying the tce location is used then the system will autoscan for the default "tce" directory. Recall, I mentioned that you can also specify the directory name. If you have chosen to use a different name via boot option, e.g., tce=hdXY/mystuff then you must continue to specify that boot code. The system will only scan for the default "tce" directory. The auto-scan was designed to have a "hands free" boot from a read-only boot media, i.e., the downloaded tinycore.iso written to cdrom. However this is a benefit to always specifying your PPR location even when using the default tce. By specifying the location, the system does not have to autoscan. This saves time during booting.

The "local=partition" saves Tiny Core to the specified partition as a standard installation, to a directory that is automatically named "tclocal."

The "local=partition" can also save Tiny Core to a "loop back" file.  (I am not sure how the name of this file is designated.)

A "local=partition/directory" option is not possible, since the only possible directory name for the "local=*" option is "tclocal."

The "home=partition" option does not work without a specified "local=partition" option.

Not true. home=partition is completely independent of local=partition. The name "tclocal" is set to support autoscanning. tclocal is for tce PPI compatible extensions installed into /usr/local/ which is mount binded to tcloal a partion or a loop back file of the same name. It is a way to persist extensions without reloading them upon each boot, in other words a tce which is simply a tarball is extracted to /usr/local, and therefore does not to be extracted upon futher booting. It is best to not to mix tclocal with a tce=....

The "home=partition" option automatically creates a "/home/tc" directory that is somehow (and for some reason) linked to a mounted partition/directory named "/mnt/hdXY/tchome".

Well yes, otherwise /home is in ram, which would dictate that you must use backup/restore in order to save your dynamic files. Using home=partition mount bind home/tc to a real disk, i.e., not in ram. Perhaps resulting in less of a need to backup.


Tiny Core boots entirely into ram.
Tiny Core is about the separation of static data and dynamic data.
Tiny Core provides many levels of persistency.
Tiny Core supports much autoscanning to reduce or eliminate boot codes.

Tiny Core Extensions are static, ie., hopefully your compiled application programs are not changing. Therefore these static data elements are store separatly from dynamic data, i.e, your home directory.

Since Tiny Core boots entirely into ram, we store our collection of extensions, in a directory which upon boot each extensions is extracted into ram (tce) or mounted and symlinked into ram (tcz)

Since /home is also in ram, and that data is dynamic, we offer the backup/restore options.

Never store extensions in your home directory. It will cause unneeded and unnecessary backup of static data.

Some users like to have persistentcy. These options are not required to use Tiny Core.

home=partition will 'move' /home/tc from ram to a real disk partition.
opt=partition will 'move' /opt form ram to real disk partition.
local=partition will 'move' /usr/local from ram to a real disk partition or a loop back file.

[h-munster]

Thank you, Robert, for the enlightening post.

I have read Core Concepts about five times, and I carry a copy in my Mini 9 for reference.

It will take some time for me to digest everything.

Thanks.