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Author Topic: Grub bootloader necessary?  (Read 7008 times)

Offline vinceASPECT

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Grub bootloader necessary?
« on: October 13, 2010, 10:27:18 AM »
Hello Forum People,

I also enjoy using Tiny Core linux. IT's a great Linux.

I was wondering about installing TC to a partition on my hard drive. I understand the basic
instructions on how to do this (without a web connection).

my question is simply this:

I don't like GRUB and have never used it to multi boot several OS's on a single partitioned hard drive.

I use a different boot tool called PLOP. This PLOP works fine for me and shows all bootable OS's in all bootable partitions.

Would it be simple for me to install TC to my desired partition (i already know how to do this) then completely IGNORE all instructions about grub manipulations.?

Plop would still show TC as bootable.....and TC should boot.

You see, PLOP runs live from CD disc. Plop does NOT install to any partition on the drive...it only exists in ram.

i can always try all this out....

i just NEVER use grub and never will do. I don't like it.

many thanks

Vince.

Offline gerald_clark

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Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 10:54:44 AM »
The plop home page states that plop cannot boot Linux directly.
You still need grub, lilo, syslinux, or similar to boot Linux.

Offline vinceASPECT

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Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 11:04:14 AM »
really?....so plop won't work?

let me check

V.

Offline tinypoodle

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Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2010, 12:54:47 PM »
vinceASPECT,

First of all, your first post would have deserved a dedicated new thread with a dedicated subject...
Hopefully an admin could split it off.
Edit: Obviously done in the meantime

TC as such is bootloader agnostic and by no means is grub a required bootloader choice.
Take references to grub as non binding suggestions to facilitate users.
As gerald_clark suggested, you could as well use lilo or syslinux.
For me TC has always booted fine by executing linld.com from (Free)DOS, using a batchfile and a (optional) parameterfile.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 04:15:06 AM by tinypoodle »
"Software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster." Niklaus Wirth - A Plea for Lean Software (1995)

aus9

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Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2010, 03:18:43 PM »
hi

and agreeing with TC being bootloader agnostic, you can remaster and have grub or grub2 as your bootloader but I lack the skills to put that into a script but you could mod it ...not that I have attempted to.

references for how to remaster using a diff bootloader but not the actual remastering are here
http://wiki.tinycorelinux.com/GRUB1+ISO+Remastering

http://wiki.tinycorelinux.com/GRUB2+ISO+Remastering

2) if grub is your cd bootloader you can then use it to diagnose things?

Offline vinceASPECT

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Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2010, 03:22:55 PM »
Hi tiny poodle etc..

well all this multi booting OS's got me a little confused.

I only understood some veru basic things.

i was wondering if TINYCORE had any way of chainloading itself?

Currently i have Puppy Linux in it's own parition and some other OS's in other partitions.

But nothing was ever set up about GRUB in puppy. The way i boot puppy is by putting the puppy
LIVE CD into the drive and booting to it....it then scans the hard drive for any HDD of Puppy. When
it finds my install it boots that....instead of the live puppy CD.

Can Tinycore do anything like this?  (apparently Puppy is unique in that it is the only OS that
can do this)

V.

Offline gerald_clark

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Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2010, 03:42:51 PM »
There is a difference between what boots, and what fs is selected for pivot-root.
I suspect Puppy is booting from the DVD, not your HD.  Once the initrd is loaded,
init searches for puppy and pivots root to the new root on the HD.

TC is different in that it never pivots out of the initrd.

Offline curaga

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Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 11:13:16 PM »
You can boot TC from a cd though, while keeping the extensions and data on a hd.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline tinypoodle

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Re: Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2010, 04:20:07 AM »
You can boot TC from a cd though, while keeping the extensions and data on a hd.

vinceASPECT,
without going into details - as I have the impression you haven't understood in detail how Puppy would boot for you - but I'd reckon the suggestion of curaga would probably come closest to what you are used to from Puppy, practically.
"Software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster." Niklaus Wirth - A Plea for Lean Software (1995)

Offline vinceASPECT

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Re: Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2010, 08:07:20 PM »
Hi guys and girls,

yes, i really appreciate any help you can give me with TINY CORE linux.

I simply don't really understand the MODES of tiny core.

I assume it works in a kind of similar way to puppy. You boot it up into RAM and then you make a hard drive area for storing PROGRAMS, DATA and EXTENSIONS. You then tell TC what stuff you want it to install on each boot up and what stuff to leave for ON DEMAND.

I kind of understand the modes a LITTLE bit.

Persistance is the word used for how an OS remembers it's changes isn't it?

So presumably the best way of running TC is always in RAM. You don't really need to install TC to a hard drive right?

In that case, i would just like you guys to help me to install TC's persistance area...it's hard drive storage area. Tell me how to do that?

I am then happy to always boot TC from it's CD disk into RAM to use it. According to the blurb this is the best way to use TC and it's not designed to be installed to a hard drive.

In that sense then, i can't see why TC needs any grub related stuff. Can't i just always boot it from CD into RAM?

I see the home page details HOW you install TC to hard drive but i seem to recall comments saying that HDD installs of TC are not really the best way to use it. (perhaps it's a kind of FRUGAL install is it?)

So essentially what i would like you guys to hepl me do is simply get TC working with a persistance area for storage and extensions and a way to boot TC without ever having to touch grub. (This is probably not too complicated right?)

My puppy here was a frugal install to HDD. The way i boot it up is by using the CD of puppy. The CD then scans the HDD for any Puppy install and upon finding mine it boots the HDD version of Puppy.

I was hoping a similar kind of system could be used for TC. (sorry for repeating myself)

many thanks

Vince.

Offline gerald_clark

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Re: Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2010, 08:31:10 PM »
All you need to do is create a 'tce' directory on your hard drive, and reboot.
After that, installed extensions and backups will be stored in that tce directory.

Offline curaga

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Re: Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2010, 12:18:41 AM »
Ah, I haven't heard the term "frugal install" in a while. Yes, the HD install on the home page would be a frugal one.

But if you want to boot from the cd, just follow gerald_clark's advice.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline vinceASPECT

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Re: Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2010, 02:47:45 AM »
Hello

This is looking good Gerard and kuraga.

So it really is quite simple then.

Exactly why do people install TC if it's not really designed for HDD install?. I know that the home page describes how to do HDD installs...but why?

V.

Offline curaga

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Re: Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2010, 03:17:17 AM »
It's not designed for a scatter install, but a pristine one. It doesn't really matter what device it's booted from, hd just happens to be most convenient.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline PIRAT507

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Re: Grub bootloader necessary?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2010, 02:45:16 PM »
I even hate grub more!
I had 3 months of trouble with this disaster, on several machines.
I went back to lilo.
Lilo even finds your live CD's in / and  adds these automagically to its menu: boot from iso that's saved on harddisk.
grub is bloated, its menu is blue and lilo's red. Enough said.