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Author Topic: How to remember settings?  (Read 19470 times)

Offline clivesay

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2008, 01:47:00 PM »
Obviously all suggestions are welcome. Please keep in mind that Puppy's existence is measured in years while Tiny Core's existence is still measured in days until January 1st. Then we can switch to months.  :)

Chris
Chris
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Offline tobiaus

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2008, 01:55:34 PM »
Obviously all suggestions are welcome.

i think it will actually take a dummies version of getting started before a friendlier startup is possible. although i can think of two other ways, they're not as likely. i'm sure if we do make startup easier (it is already very simple, but complicated enough to understand the options) artie will hear about it at the puppy forum.

Offline clivesay

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2008, 02:02:58 PM »
At one time, DSL was not an easy OS for people. After Robert created the MyDSL system, it took some time for enough basic extensions to be created and tools developed to manage them. That process took years. Since we have a great base here and some awesome devs that crank apps out left and right, I think the curve of learning will be greatly accelerated but will take some time to make everything seem "easy" to most. I know my work schedule has put me way behind in my team responsibilities but I am slowly working to recover.

Really it's been amazing to see how quickly people have come to this project and have jumped right in. It's been wonderful to see.
Chris
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Offline tobiaus

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2008, 03:09:09 PM »
I think the curve of learning will be greatly accelerated but will take some time to make everything seem "easy" to most.

i know what you mean, the first time i used dsl i was like, "really?" but when i came back i appreciated how wonderful it was. now i wish xubuntu was more like dsl that way. still, there should not be a learning curve on starting the distro.

we can decide based on what we know, which method is easiest to start with, and the order they're listed in makes a difference, but ultimately listing the "modes" at the forefront may not be the best idea. it's important that the modes exist, how someone new to the distro selects one is secondary, to the distro not the user.

but if they are listed, there are also advantages there, and in that case, there may be a better way to do that. i have not made suggestions about that, yet, because despite reading as much of getting started as i could, i just couldn't sort through it all the first time around. finally i tried tinycore toram nopcmcia and that was good. also, i didn't need the nopcmcia option.

Offline roberts

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2008, 05:38:42 PM »
Comparing apples to oranges. I don't want excuses made for TC.

Tiny Core by its very names implies that it is not and never will be a turnkey desktop system,

Comparing  Core to other turnkey desktop systems is not a valid comparison.
Tiny Core is not for anyone expecting a turnkey desktop.

The opening words of the "Getting Started" state simply enough for anyone to understand.
"Tiny Core Linux, not being a complete Desktop..."

By using Core implies that the user will have many choices.
In a turnkey system the choices are made for you and with much hand holding.

It should be obvious that 10MB does not equal 100 MB.

It is not the developers but the documentation that is lagging.

Yet the basis of TC extension is not dissimilar to the MyDSL system. Which I developed without any assistance.

Bu then I suppose that if the  Getting Started document of DSL, which I wrote, talked about .dsl, uci, and .unc all of which were my ideas and implemented solely by me, there would be complaints as well.

The difference is that with TC you must know how to use the choices offered to realized just what is possible with Core. That is not true with other turnkey desktop OS.

Tiny Core, no excuses, its not for everyone.
10+ Years Contributing to Linux Open Source Projects.

Offline wurstbrot

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2008, 06:19:14 PM »

Offline qb4

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2008, 06:35:24 PM »
"Tiny Core, no excuses, its not for everyone"

"TC is about a new concept, not about targeting a particular era of hardware."

Now there are a couple of lines that could serve well in the first paragraph of "Getting Started", and in bold.

And another which states that its suggested target audience is Advanced to Expert users.

But no matter how you try and explain it, you will always get those who don't want to..
Read it.
Understand it.
Accept it.

And those who, as the old adage "a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing" goes, will always make an assessment based on their little knowledge, and post things like "I'll come back later when it is useable", or some such nonsense.


Offline tobiaus

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2008, 06:47:01 PM »
and although saying "i'll come back when the opening screen is different" was snippy and almost certain to offend, (respectfully) neither what roberts said or what qb4 said is a good argument for an unintelligible startup menu.

i actually gave reasons for the way it is and the way it could be. both have merit. tc never was and may never be "turnkey," but we're not actually talking about it being a turnkey linux. and responding to a snippity remark about whether it's easy enough with intellectual snobbery is totally unnecessary. it's only going to offend the same noobs you and i think we should be friendly to, qb4. and your opponent will only use it to prove that we're unreasonable.

but hey, say what you want.

i just hope it serves the purpose you had in mind. i can't imagine either of your replies will at all, but it's your forum.

Offline wurstbrot

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2008, 03:13:08 AM »
I don't consider myself an 'expert user' and i find the concept and the help file totally logic and straightforward. Its very clear. The app browser is great and does not need any expertise either. Everybody who can edit a grub menu.lst will have fun with TC right from the beginning. Obviously Artie couldn't do that. But once upon a time he managed to do just that for his puppy linux distro - so thats bitchy, a bit hypocritical.

Offline Artie

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2008, 05:38:37 AM »
Look what I started...  :o Never ever edited a Grub menu.lst. Wouldn't know how to.  :) Didn't mean to be bitchy or hypocritical. Was just a knee jerk reaction to Getting Started coming from Puppy and DSL and Slitaz. Expected more of the same just smaller. I understand now that this distro has a totally different agenda, that it's not meant to replace any of those above and that it has a different target audience. I wish you good luck with the project.

Artie

Offline 8-bit

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2008, 12:27:16 PM »
the boot code would be

tinycore tce=sda3 restore=sda3

That should work.

JW

I have TinyCore installed frugally on a virtual drive in VirtualBox running on Windows Vista.
I have Puppy and TinyCore both installed to the same virtual drive.
TinyCore is installed in a subdirectory called appropriately tinycore.
I set up backup to point to that subdirectory and added the grub line you suggested with a change to hda1/tinycore for both tce and restore.
Although the backup was saved in the subdirectory as mydata.tgz, It will not load my installed programs that are saved in the backup and a restore using the control panel also fails.
So....
What am I missing here?
The partition is formated ext2.

Offline tobiaus

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2008, 02:33:19 PM »
8-bit: does the waitusb part help? (don't forget your tce=sda3 too.)

Thanks. Been experimenting. Only way I can reboot with programs saved is if I write "tinycore restore=sda3 waitusb=5" every single time I reboot.

Offline 8-bit

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2008, 03:14:52 PM »
8-bit: does the waitusb part help? (don't forget your tce=sda3 too.)

I just downloaded the new version in Puppy, created a directory for it, opened the iso file, copied the files to the tce directory, modified my menu list in GRUB, copied the mysave.tgz file from my previous installation to it, and booted Tinycore release canidate 9.
It still failed to use the saved data and retore still did not work.
But....... I then stopped trying to install from the TCE file list and instead installed from the TCZ file list.
Now upon reboot, my installed programs and files are restored.
One last question.  Can you recomend a good graphical file manager for it?
Linux file descriptions still read like an unknown language to me.
And I have been playing with Puppy linux for a few years.  :)

[^thehatsrule^: fixed quote]
« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 01:01:52 PM by ^thehatsrule^ »

Offline tobiaus

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2008, 03:37:20 PM »
riiight, i read "sda3" and no "waitusb" forgettting that sda can be a non-usb device, too. someone had just used waitusb. i was just about to attempt a usb install, at the moment that's the only thing i know besides toram without settings.

as for a graphical manager, the list of apps like that is still growing, the nicest fileman seems to be emelfm2 which is great, but i'm sure you'd like something more like rox-filer. i don't blame you. i wouldn't mind using thunar, but i think installing xfce might be a bit much. if anyone compiles rox (even the older version puppy once used) that will be cool. emelfm2 is one of the traditional double pane "orthodox" filemanagers, but one button makes it single pane.

Offline Jason W

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Re: How to remember settings?
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2008, 03:56:08 PM »
Not to get off topic, but Rox Filer was on my to do list.  It is one of my favorite file managers, but I got pretty comfortable with emelfm2.  If no one else does it in the next few weeks I may find time for a Rox extension.