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Author Topic: The general direction of the Linux desktop  (Read 9212 times)

Offline roberts

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The general direction of the Linux desktop
« on: September 07, 2009, 09:46:31 PM »
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For comparison, the size of a default Gnome desktop install for Etch was 1360MB; for Lenny it is 1830MB; for Squeeze it looks like it will be well over 3000MB! Remember that for Sarge we installed both Gnome and KDE from CD1 with both together taking 1390MB?

Sure, some of that is real functionality, but a lot is also (IMO) redundant visual effects that only serve to slow the desktop down and junk needed to do stuff automagically. And a heck of a lot is duplicated functionality. One of the main reasons I switched to Linux was because it gave me back control over my systems, but with KDE4 and pervasive stuff like hal and all the various "kits" Linux is on a fast track that's giving priority to flashiness over real functionality and eroding that control.

Full article:  http://alioth.debian.org/~fjp/log/posts/debtree_0.7.3_-_Oh_what_tangled_webs_we_weave.html

As the others grow larger, I try to go smaller, by doing more with less.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 11:53:06 AM by roberts »
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Offline bmarkus

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2009, 11:01:22 PM »
Agree. This is why I have choosen Xfce4 to port which is still small enough yet feature reach, modular and what is also important has a live developer and user community and continously developed. Its size and philosophy fits to TC well.

Another possible alternative is LXDE which is also small and not resource hungry.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 11:03:50 PM by bmarkus »
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Offline tclfan

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 08:33:15 AM »
As much as I had been using XFCE in the past (gnome, kde and vista bload completely unacceptable) with xubuntu and zenwalk, I would be happier with still lighter one like LXDE.
Linux with Gnome and KDE as well as Vista took the wrong path, bloated with garbage and inefficiency.
The ultimately desirable would be fast and light system developed in Assembler, such as Kolibri, unfortunately the development cycle of Kolibri is far too slow (It is not truly usable yet). Therefore Tiny Core with LXDE would be nice to see, as probably the most efficient, usable desktop in existence...

Offline bigpcman

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 09:13:55 AM »
As much as I had been using XFCE in the past (gnome, kde and vista bload completely unacceptable) with xubuntu and zenwalk, I would be happier with still lighter one like LXDE.
Linux with Gnome and KDE as well as Vista took the wrong path, bloated with garbage and inefficiency.
The ultimately desirable would be fast and light system developed in Assembler, such as Kolibri, unfortunately the development cycle of Kolibri is far too slow (It is not truly usable yet). Therefore Tiny Core with LXDE would be nice to see, as probably the most efficient, usable desktop in existence...


So is there anything holding back LXDE from being used with tc? Why has an extension not been created?
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Offline bmarkus

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 09:29:26 AM »
So is there anything holding back LXDE from being used with tc? Why has an extension not been created?

Because nobody created yet  :P A while ago I ported LXDE to a ... live system. I will try to repeat this deal.
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Offline curaga

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2009, 11:03:46 AM »
I didn't like the direction Xfce 4.6 took. It added a gnome-style registry, the sound applet doesn't work with OSS, added more bloat.

LXDE - isn't openbox a part of it, and already available on TC?
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Offline roberts

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2009, 12:01:30 PM »
I believe my original post was related to Hal and his buddies, Pango, and Dbus, otherwise known as Gtk2. It is that which has boarded the bloatmobile. So, Xfce and LXDE would also be considered as quite large.

While I think it is an admirable effort to offer such as extensions, don't expect them to be included in the base.

It is also MHO that the Linux Desktop should stop trying to emulate Windows, registry, key strokes, GUI, and the like. This is *nix and should be have its own identity.
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Offline alu

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2009, 01:09:25 PM »
agree. i personnally have looked at a lot of distros and ended up with debian-minimal install, ion3, and if possible almost only gtk1 or cli apps. from that point of view, tc/mc offers much more choice and flexibility. if you want windows app, or if you can't work without specific windows apps (those which won't work with emulation in linux either), then you have the possibility to preserve a partition for windows. i must use it for 2 apps which i can neither run with wine, nor with vbox, and the more i use linux, the more i find out ways not to use these 2 apps. i think, i am running windows now once in a month (average) for one day or two.

Offline tclfan

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2009, 02:35:47 PM »
It is also MHO that the Linux Desktop should stop trying to emulate Windows, registry, key strokes, GUI, and the like. This is *nix and should be have its own identity.
Yes! Emulating bloat, registry, etc. is the tragic direction many linux distros took unfortunately. Adding fragmentation of linux landscape to this and I see Microsoft has little to worry.
To be competitive, linux should have a unified strategy of focussing on efficiency and dexterity, not bloat and emulating Windows. As long as there is no central management that would enforce this, it is difficult to compete except on price point.

Offline thane

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2009, 10:46:34 PM »
It isn't just Linux developers though. One of my favorite websites was providing some of its content in downloadable .mov files. Great, I had mplayer. Then it switched to using YouTube, which of course requires Flash. So I now needed gtk2. Can Linux force content providers to use formats that don't require bloated software? I don't see how.

Offline curaga

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2009, 02:26:06 AM »
That's why we have scripts like youtube-dl, and sites like keepvid.com :) to fight the Flash requirement.
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Offline bmarkus

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2009, 02:41:04 AM »

LXDE - isn't openbox a part of it, and already available on TC?


Yes, openbox is there as well as pcmanfm, mybe they will require rebuild. Unfortunately I couldn't start LXDE till now. True, had no too much time to play with. Work in progress.
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Offline jpeters

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2009, 03:33:49 AM »
That's why we have scripts like youtube-dl, and sites like keepvid.com :) to fight the Flash requirement.

who's fighting...download every video?  I don't think so. 

Offline curaga

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2009, 03:38:14 AM »
It's downloaded to cache with Flash too. Very little difference.
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Offline jpeters

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Re: The general direction of the Linux desktop
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2009, 03:56:44 AM »
not my experience....clicking on a vid starts streaming immediately. Also, the quality was much better than a downloaded version.