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Author Topic: EasyOS - no more iso's. Images only  (Read 764 times)

Offline PDP-8

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EasyOS - no more iso's. Images only
« on: June 22, 2022, 08:32:41 PM »
Someday my dream is that the TC devs will consider offering TCx86 / 64 in an image format, and not just an iso.

Perhaps emulating what we already do with TC for the RPI.

That said, I ran across EasyOS, and while it is not my cup of tea, I did read with interest Barry Kauler's blog post about it:

https://bkhome.org/news/202112/why-iso-was-retired.html

I can boot the TCpure64 iso 6 ways to Sunday, so that is not a problem.

If one can look beyond the political or personalities from the post, I think a bootable IMG (compressed or not) is worth considering these days.

We've hashed all this out elsewhere, yet my biggest fear still remains:  That TC will end up being just an interesting "small distro" for old computers, which if taken to the extreme, means a distro for your own personal "Computer History Museum", right next to your Sinclair ZX-81. :)

In other words, perhaps a more *modern* method of distribution via images and not iso's, might be worth looking into, or perhaps in addition to iso format especially for us that boot from usb (yes, I know how to make one) and not CD's /iso's for our personal CHM machines.

Sorry - guess that's a little more than .02c  :)

That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline gadget42

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Re: EasyOS - no more iso's. Images only
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2022, 09:56:04 PM »
wanted to add an additional link that Barry Kauler provided for current/future/past? readers/commenters/time-travelers?:
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=4690
***a brief/incomplete comment regarding the above puppylinux forum thread: it is worth a quick read even though there are the usual *forum* abrasiveness(es?)***

and just to be complete, here are the links to the original post(which Barry added to several times) and to an additional, more indepth part-2 commentary/tutorial-ish?:
https://bkhome.org/news/202112/why-iso-was-retired.html
https://bkhome.org/news/202112/why-iso-was-retired-part-2.html
The fluctuation theorem has long been known for a sudden switch of the Hamiltonian of a classical system Z54 . For a quantum system with a Hamiltonian changing from... https://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,25972.msg166580.html#msg166580

Offline gadget42

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Re: EasyOS - no more iso's. Images only
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2022, 10:12:59 PM »
especially for the animal lovers i will reference one specific post from the above mentioned thread:
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?p=44215#p44215

and am attaching:
dogs-like-trucks-and-wheelbarrows-also.jpg(35kb)

and then dogs reminded of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dog

attaching:
Internet_dog.jpg(80kb)

modified-20220623-0024-added additional wikipedia link and attachment
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 10:24:53 PM by gadget42 »
The fluctuation theorem has long been known for a sudden switch of the Hamiltonian of a classical system Z54 . For a quantum system with a Hamiltonian changing from... https://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,25972.msg166580.html#msg166580

Offline curaga

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Re: EasyOS - no more iso's. Images only
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2022, 11:00:41 PM »
Well, I don't see much of a difference, especially given the audience is a bit more advanced here. Just like dd'ing an image file to the usb stick, you can dd the iso.

The img file can have the partition be expanded, but that has drawbacks. An expanded filesystem is inferior in performance and limits compared to one made "to size". So advanced users will install properly, and so it doesn't matter that the initial step can't be expanded.

I suppose UEFI machines may have trouble booting the iso dd'd to an usb stick, if they are UEFI only or otherwise limited in the BIOS.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline PDP-8

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Re: EasyOS - no more iso's. Images only
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2022, 01:44:04 AM »
Thanks Curaga - I never thought about the expanded filesystem and performance.

That's something for me to look into, TC or otherwise.  Thanks for the heads-up.

That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline tacpilot

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Re: EasyOS - no more iso's. Images only
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2022, 06:22:31 AM »
Quote
.... yet my biggest fear still remains:  That TC will end up being just an interesting "small distro" for old computers
I believe the opposite to be true.. We live in a world of ever increasing bloat quite often
introduced through feature creep. Combine that with the fact that now 'Every one is a developer'.
Meaning fringe distros including wiz bang apps, providing little added system benefit, that are often poorly written.
Basically making toys for newcomers to feel edgy with.

The ultra light weight and completely modular aspect of TC is actually filling a niche that is
not really being filled by any one else. The fact they are not trying to be a wiz bang distro,
I find admirable.

With the world moving more and more to VM's and containerized systems, makes TC the shining
star for things to come. Being able to effortlessly snap together super lean purpose made instances
at the tip of your fingers, is a gold mine. This is as close to creating bare metal hardware
appliances as your gonna get... For professionals, TC looks to be the ideal toolbox of the future.
With the added bonus that it is also approachable by less experienced users, is an icing bonus.
I don't see TC going any where...

So to the point,
iso is not just a file format. It is a file system that lends it self to portability. The fact it
is mountable, and read only lends it self to uses far outside those of just burning a
distro to a CD.. The convenience of using it to distribute an OS is hard to ignore.

What an end user does with it, is up to them.

What I would encourage people to do, is to learn boot loaders, inits, and
explore the strengths of the tools provided them. Trying to convince the world
to kill a well developed and accepted distributed file system, to my ears. Is
like convincing the world to stop using hammers because some one created
a gasoline powered pull start hammer, and they swear its gonna take the world
by storm.
Never limit your creativity by the imagination of others.

Offline CNK

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Re: EasyOS - no more iso's. Images only
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2022, 04:47:24 PM »
Just to say that I for one still use CDs to boot live distro images rather than USB drives, so I'd prefer distros didn't switch to raw image files.

I'm also firmly in the old computer hobbyist category because I'm posting from a Pentium 1 PC at the moment. But the main computer that I use TC on is only a few years old and doesn't have a disc drive, so from that angle it wouldn't make much difference. For that I copied TC's system files over and set up the boot loader manually, it needs UEFI for the latter anyway.

Keeping ISOs caters to both camps, as I see it.

Offline Leee

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Re: EasyOS - no more iso's. Images only
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2022, 06:34:51 PM »
Just my two cents worth -

My first thought was, "Wait... ISO -is- an image format."  But not to quibble, as I realize what you meant...

It doesn't seem like it would be that big of a deal to distribute both ISO files and compressed images, assuming there's a workaround for the drawbacks of expanded file systems.  I personally wouldn't expect to use an image file - but then I don't use ISO files either except for the occasional VM where I pretend it actually -is- a CDROM.

(rant)
It seems absurd that I'm doing these little tiny installs on my PC/laptop/server platforms and installing GIANT images, complete with systemd and God knows what else, on my cell phone.    :)
(/rant)

What I would encourage people to do, is to learn boot loaders, inits, and
explore the strengths of the tools provided them.

@tacpilot
Definitely agree on that, though I often have to relearn the part about "explore the strengths of the tools provided them."

Also, I've got this really nice electric-start, self propelled hammer I'd sell you.   8)
core 13.1 x86_64

Offline PDP-8

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Re: EasyOS - no more iso's. Images only
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2022, 11:35:47 PM »
I think an img file would be an interesting interim addition between the distribution files and an iso.

In the end, there's really no sense hashing it all out, because if it *was* important enough, there is always the "remaster/remix - unofficial" subforum where one could perhaps post where it is hosted.

Being an unofficial area, I suppose that even current dev's could put experiments there with the caution of "as is - no support". :)
That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline tacpilot

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Re: EasyOS - no more iso's. Images only
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2022, 07:20:37 PM »
I could definitely start a rant on cell phones, and even
reading the word systemd makes me throw up in my
mouth a little.  :P

Quote
Also, I've got this really nice electric-start, self propelled hammer I'd sell you.
Do you take coupons  :D
Never limit your creativity by the imagination of others.