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Author Topic: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev  (Read 18954 times)

Offline bmarkus

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2009, 01:14:52 AM »
slightly OT: iirc, there is the (recent) xorg.confless feature of xorg, but it relies on hal

Sounds interesting, thanks. HAL is available now, however just to have Xorg configured it seems to be overkilling to use HAL and its dependencies, at least in TC terms  :) But if you have all these ingredients already there because of a desktop environment for example, it would be whorth to try.

Is it available with the current Xorg package in the repo or it must be recompiled with this feature?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 01:16:33 AM by bmarkus »
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Offline Jason W

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2009, 04:43:01 AM »
I think the ability to use Xorg without a config file has been around since about version 7.2, I was using it a couple of years ago.  And I have used Xorg without a config file in TC when hal is not installed. 

I have many machines, and I have had a hit or miss experience with live distros like slax that automatically configure full blown X.  Slax offers a vesa mode of X to accomodate machines that will not autoconfigure. 

Also, slax uses KDE which makes it easy to select the preferred X resolution.  TC's typical window managers to not offer such convenience, which would require the user to manually edit xorg.conf anyway to achieve desired results.

Offline bmarkus

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2009, 05:02:47 AM »
Also, slax uses KDE which makes it easy to select the preferred X resolution.  TC's typical window managers to not offer such convenience, which would require the user to manually edit xorg.conf anyway to achieve desired results.

For sure autoconfig is not a 100% solution but in most cases you can accept it without adjustment. If not, in worst case you can go back to the actual VESA mode, its easy. My view is that there are more pros that cons and it would increase user satisfaction. Or go for Xfce4, there is also a disply config tool :)

For example my desktop works fine with VESA, but the laptop display is so ugly that I have to use Xorg if want to survive using it regularly, not only for short testing.

VESA is safe and a must have, but for me only the second option.
Béla
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Offline tclfan

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2009, 07:27:44 AM »
From end user perspective I would add my two cents and support the opinion of Bmarkus. Correct resolution display is very important on LCD monitors. For testing or occasional use one could put up with ugly display on laptops but it is hard to suffer such for extended period.
E.g. Zenwalk, which is a well put together light LiveCD (Nothing is as light as TCL!), based on SLAX, appears to correctly and automatically configure display resolution using xorg. Furthermore, it appears to me that Austrumi, which is another small and light, run entirely in memory (Initramfs, like Slitaz and TCL) might be using xorg too, although I may be wrong on this one, inferring this conclusion only from resolution behavior...
None of the distros I know is architected as well (IMHO) as Tiny Core, but in the area of display support perhaps work done by others could be somehow leveraged to further improve user experience... If it is not too much to ask considering already fantastic achievement...

Offline ^thehatsrule^

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2009, 10:13:56 AM »
Apparently hal can be used for input related things...  don't know whether or not it would require compiling though

@TCLFAN: did you try Xorg in TC?

Offline bmarkus

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2009, 11:02:42 AM »
How to use Xorg confless? It is clear, that a working HAL system is required when Xorg starts. What else? Any practial advice welcome, especially a conf file example.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 11:08:33 AM by bmarkus »
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Offline tclfan

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2009, 11:09:03 AM »
Apparently hal can be used for input related things...  don't know whether or not it would require compiling though

@TCLFAN: did you try Xorg in TC?
Sorry, I did not have a chance yet, working long days with hardly any window for fun. I can only rely on others' positive reports...
Accidentally I just read that the new Austrumi (1.9.4) has also full support for ATI, Intel and nVidia chips, which is surprising for Initramfs run-all-from-memory little Linux. I did not have the time to test how good it is either, but one thing I know by now: Nothing matches Tiny Core's architecture and network support (not even SliTaz), so Tiny Core is a new star and deserves special care. Therefore I see video as the next frontier here,  in order not to limit this gem to special purpose systems...

 

Offline bmarkus

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2009, 11:51:49 AM »
Made some experiments, result is interesting.

Actually I am using Xorg.

- Exited to command
- Deleted all files in /etc/X11 now it is empty.
- Stopped HAL
- Entered 'startx'

No error message, display is the same as before. Everything looks fine, and still /etc/X11 is empty

Hm.... .

Strange. maybe some caching? Repeating it with HAL running result is the same.

EDIT: Not strange, this is the confless feature. No cache, just autodiscovery!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 01:39:14 PM by bmarkus »
Béla
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Offline bmarkus

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2009, 01:28:27 PM »
Xorg is using a hardware discovery based on different sources, HAL is just one of them. It is true, that 'Xorg -configure' works fine to create xorg.conf without HAL.

Now the question is, if Xorg can create the config file, why do you need the config file to use Xorg?

Answer is simple, you do not need it! This is the confless Xorg setup  ;)

xorg.conf is used only to override result of the discovery, as it has the largest priority, so you can correct false detection or add extra features. It makes the Xorg setup much more easier than described in the WIKI in fact  :-*, modification of .xsession must be enough, expecting prerequsits installed.

Another benefit of confless is that it works at startup, so using the same USB stick on a different machine will adapt Xorg to the present hardware.

^thehatsrule^: thanks a lot for mentioning confless, I didn't know this feature.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 01:51:27 PM by bmarkus »
Béla
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Offline ^thehatsrule^

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2009, 02:11:38 PM »
The wiki?  Did you mean the .info?

In any case, I think the steps were described like this to cover the most general cases... I recall some confless problems with some framebuffer things a while ago (perhaps not a problem now).

Offline bmarkus

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2009, 02:15:38 PM »
The wiki?  Did you mean the .info?

You are right, .info But this topic deserves a good WIKI article too. I was thinking on this typing the answer.
Béla
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Offline bmarkus

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2009, 02:18:38 PM »
In any case, I think the steps were described like this to cover the most general cases... I recall some confless problems with some framebuffer things a while ago (perhaps not a problem now).

There are and will be always issues with automatic configuration. But my advice to give it a chance and if doesn't work, use VESA. For sure more than 50% will work just as it is without fine tuning. In this case using autoconfig in TC when Xorg is install would be a benefit for all.
Béla
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Offline roberts

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2009, 04:29:45 PM »
I don't see graphics-2.6.29.1-tinycore.tczm listed as a dependency for Xorg-7.4.tcel, yet from the other thread it is sometimes required?

While these two extensions don't really qualify as .core. as they never existed in Tiny Core, I can easily make an automatic confless Xorg with the added dependency for v2.3rc1.

Still it wil be the same concept, drop in Xorg-7.4.tcel and with appropriate dependencies into your tce directory and the system witll boot into Xorg confless.

Still I have a concern about the dontzap of Xorg, if Xorg confless fails then the state of the machine is not easily recoverable.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 04:33:12 PM by roberts »
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Offline bmarkus

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2009, 11:17:23 PM »

I don't see graphics-2.6.29.1-tinycore.tczm listed as a dependency for Xorg-7.4.tcel, yet from the other thread it is sometimes required?


Hi,

following works on a stock TC 2.2:

- install Xorg-7.4 & graphics-2.6.29.1-tinycore (of course with their dependencies in .dep)
- make a backup of .xsession in your home (e.g. 'cp .xsession .xsession.vesa')
- modify .xsession in ~ dir as described in .info of Xorg
- reboot with backup

TC will start with Xorg with autoconfig instead of VESA

Please note:

- /opt/.filetool.lst is not edited
- no any change done in /etc/X11

Drivers in graphics-2.6.29.1-tinycore are required, without them Xorg will not start, so do not miss it.

If Xorg doesn't start or it is unusable:

- reboot with 'tinycore text' option
- rename .xsession.vesa to .xsession in ~
- enter 'startx' command or reboot with backup

If you want to change some settings, place xorg.conf in /etc/X11 No need to have a full config file, enough to have only parts you want to override.




Béla
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Offline ^thehatsrule^

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Re: Using microcore with xorg-xvesa-lite and xbdev
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2009, 11:56:43 PM »
As from the .info:
Quote
.
      This extension depends on graphics-2.6.29.1.tcem for
      any kind of 3D or video accel.
.
      Please note, for AGP or integrated AGP cards such as Intel
      chips you will always need graphics-2.6.29.1.tcem.
So, it is sometimes needed.  I'd guess autoconfigure wouldn't check for those files.