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Author Topic: Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?  (Read 1389 times)

Offline windundgeist

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Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?
« on: July 02, 2021, 11:58:40 AM »
I've been on the TC forum for some time now and struggle with installing and configuring TC. Today I wanted to read some more in the wiki. That's when I came across dCore!

It seems like dCore is what I'm looking for. A TC that can be easily expanded with other packages? If so, why didn't anyone told me?

Now I've started reading the dCore wiki. Many pages, very complex. But is it really that complex? Or should I just download a plus version and then boot? Is there also an installer in the ISO to do a frugal installation, like with TC? With the desktop of my choice?

Ok, I've seen these versions exist:

dCore-bionic64
dCore-buster64
dCore-focal64
dCore-stretch64

Which is the simplest version, requires little RAM, comes with a light desktop and can be easily expanded with additional packages, for example firewall, Opera browser?

Thank you  ::)

Offline curaga

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Re: Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2021, 10:52:59 PM »
No version of TinyCore is really for beginners. dCore expects familiarity with linux, TC and Debian.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline windundgeist

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Re: Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2021, 06:09:07 AM »
@curuga

I know that's why I'm here  :)

There is a TC installer. It comes with the corePlus ISO from TC. Now please do a dcore-netinstaller as a TC extension and integrate it into corePlus ISO.

Install-Procedure:

1. User boots corePlus and creates a Wifi connection.

2. User starts dcore-netinstaller.

3. User choose dcore flower and desktop.

4. User selects installation location (full disk or partition)

5. User selects additional extensions (for example wifi) and bootcodes.

6. Installation is carried out, files are downloaded directly from dcore repo.

Advantages of this solution are:

a) Everything is integrated in corePlus ISO, no need for different installation ISOs for dcore.

b) TC-installer can be used as a basis for dcore-netinstaller.

c) Even beginners can get a TC in this way that can be easily expanded.

I would be very interested in such a solution as I am working on a website for inexperienced users looking for a solution for their old computer. So far I've found a few that work well with 1GB of RAM (Q4OS, Debian, Bodhi) and a few less user-friendly (Devuan, antiX). What I am missing is a lightweight solution that is still easily expandable, dcore could be, but not with this installation methods:

https://www.linuxsecrets.com/tinycorelinux-wiki/dcore:basic_desktop_installation.html

https://www.linuxsecrets.com/tinycorelinux-wiki/dcore:installation_from_iso_without_boot_loader.html

We are in the year 2021! And please get your documentation in order and make it user-friendly. I've been on this forum for about 2 months now and there has been no progress on the documentation! The wiki link leads to a defect wiki:

User authentication is temporarily unavailable. If this situation persists, please inform your Wiki Admin.
====== Permission Denied ====== Sorry, you don't have enough rights to continue.

====== Login ====== You are currently not logged in! Enter your authentication credentials below to log in. You need to have cookies enabled to log in.


There is a mirror of the wiki, but no one had the idea to link the mirror in the menu of the TC website! Did you forget the password to edit the website  ;) ? dcore is not mentioned in any document on the website, not in Welcome, not in Installation, not in another! But someone wrote somewhere that dcore is often overlooked. No wonder if it is not mentioned!

Let me know if there is a dcore-netinstaller in the corePlus ISO, I would be delighted!

http://linuc.mipropia.com

greetings
Patrick

Offline Juanito

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Re: Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2021, 08:10:20 AM »
tc-install is a user contributed extension - you could pm the maintainer?

Offline windundgeist

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Re: Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2021, 08:40:29 AM »
@Juanito

Good morning Juanito  :)

But it needs a dcore-netinstaller. And it needs more coordination in TinyCore. And it needs more will to make TinyCore a distro that can help millions of users! To do this, it must be more user-friendly and well documented. Otherwise you sink into the requests here in the forum! TinyCore isn't on LinuC yet, but I'm working on it. Of course, I wonder if it's wise to advertise TinyCore on LinuC if it puts a heavy load on the TinyCore forum. That's why I put TinyCore at the bottom of my list for so long, hoping something would happen here. I have my own way of communicating things.

I really like TinyCore and I think it has very high potential. But if you'd rather keep it to yourself, that's your choice. After all, it's yours, even if it's open-source! TinyCore could be improved with little effort. Ok, hardware detection is a lot of work? But it could only be improved with the tools. For example the swaptool:

A window opens, the user can choose whether he wants to have a swapfile. He enters the desired size with bs and count, for example he selects G for bs and 2 for count. The tool then manages the conversion into a command which can be processed by TinyCore. The user can click whether the swapfile should be permanent. The tool then sets the boot code and the entries in the files. The user can choose whether he wants to activate zswap and with which algorithm. The user can choose whether he wants a zram and what % of the RAM it should be. The tool sets limits.

I haven't seen any other distro that has a swapfile tool before! TinyCore is the only one I know. So just do it better! And the same goes for the other tools, screen resolution, keyboard, mouse settings, etc. If a distribution has limited functionality due to its small size and the desired performance, this is not a problem as long as the distribution offers the user good tools. Don't waste time writing books that nobody reads! Don't waste time writing instructions that only Linux cracks can understand! Use your time to do something good for the user, not for the Linux crack. The crack finds its way even without instructions, that's why it is a crack! Simple and clear documentation, good tools and graphical installers ... and TinyCore with dcore will soon have a few million users, if that's what you want. Or stay a small community of Linux cracks and just have fun with TinyCore without really helping the world, that's the decision you have to make. For you alone or for the world?

Offline nick65go

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Re: Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2021, 09:54:32 AM »
@windundgeist (wind and spirit?) your intentions are laudable!!. But (in my humble opinion) you preach to the wrong choir.

I do not believe a small TC team /community can teach (by using wiki, forum etc) the novice users. Basic Linux CLI is a must. The GUI is just the bait (temptation). Maybe the TC purpose is not to spread to the masses (without proper TC resources: servers, free time).

 "Don't waste time writing books that nobody reads!" -> If your target audience is like this, then TC is not for them, sorry!
it sounds (for me) like someone wants to first try driving a car (or airplane) just for fun (without a proper driving license), and then maybe later read the car manual. They may be lucky to do not crash the car against a tree for few days, but for sure they will make the car-crash soon. And then they start to ask for (medical) help. which could be (partially) provided but driving the car is not fun anymore.

FYI: crack(er) = break(er), destroy(er); maybe you should use hacker; or guru ;) grey beard is optional.
 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 10:03:57 AM by nick65go »

Offline windundgeist

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Re: Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2021, 11:25:19 AM »
@nick65go

Yes, I have some strange names. JSM is another. You can find more about this on fb on my PRBI friends list  8)

I understand what you mean. But as you can see on other distributions, it is also possible for people who have no Linux knowledge. Or who has knowledge of Windows? That is the meaning of user friendliness  ;)

I have made a few ideas and comments above about this. It also works with good tools that are easy to use. And they don't always have to have a great GUI. The main thing is that it works properly.

Have you really read your car's owner's manual? And that from the refrigerator? And that from the washing machine? And that from the toaster? And what else? But well, maybe you did. But have you also read the technical manual of your car and the construction documentation? But that's what you think a user should do here. And if he does, he finds outdated information or none at all, as in the case of dcore. I received the link to the wiki mirror here in the forum, directly to the home page of TC. Two days ago i was wondering what would be shown if i delete the last part of the link ... and oh wonder i found the link to dcore. It can't be that!

So again, there are probably more than a billion Windows users out there! And soon at least some % of them will understand what is being done with their money in the world by these philanthropists! Many will then want to get away from Windows. But Linux isn't ready for it. Why not, after so many years? Because there is not enough coordination and project management. An OS is not just the kernel and some applications, but also everything around it, including documentation and training. Windows courses are everywhere, Linux courses are only a few.

I have the impression that the vast majority of the Linux community thinks Linux is just a toy and only a few distributions see it differently and do serious work (Fedora, openSUSE, maybe Ubuntu). And because it's open-source, every "crack" thinks he can be the great master! 99% of these "cracks" would be fired after a few days if Linux were a company like Microsoft! By "crack" I mean people who somehow like to read incomprehensible manuals for hours  8)

But apparently some don't really understand BBB?

BBB definition
We define Building Back Better (BBB) as a holistic concept that uses disaster recovery and recovery as a way to improve the physical, social, environmental and economic conditions of a community in order to create a more resilient community in an effective and efficient way create.

https://buildbackbetter.co.nz/about-us/

Or did these madmen and madwomen purposely cause a disaster to impose their ideology on humanity? It looks like this! So best if we go back to the touring machine when Windows breaks down? Yes, it looks like this  :(

Ok, but I'm still working on LinuC, which is for people who don't want to go back to the touring machine, but would like to use their old computer for a few more years. Not because they are nostalgic, but because they need the money for other things (food, housing, health). Do you have any idea about the distribution of wealth in the world? Do you have any idea how long a normal worker has to earn to buy a new computer, in Argentina or in India?

If you want to help, you can, LinuC is here, version 0.4. Today I'm going to add a short project plan to Project Information. By the end of July I want LinuC in 4 languages, with or without TC and dcore. Because my project plan is not waiting for you. Either you are motivated and ready, or you are not.

http://linuc.mipropia.com

Offline nick65go

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Re: Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2021, 02:54:53 PM »
@windundgeist: You have no idea how deep I am motivated and ready, but only for the priorities that I choose myself. So do not wait for my help, follow your dreams. Our time on this planet is limited. Choose wise how to invest it. The hobbies will change as we evolve.

I do not belong to any tribe or religion. My loyalty is only for very few things in life; neither hardware nor software (windows or linux) qualify -- they are tools /toys, not my baby. I play with them as you do with a puppy (more good than bad in them). When the puppy bites you (is not friendly), you move on. There are a lot of wanderer puppy (distributions) to adopt from, it that makes you happy.

Building Back Better (BBB) has to wait until last stage capitalism representatives (baby boomer generation) will be naturally extincted. Oh yes, I know very well the economic power of bullshit-fiat-money per worked-hour (I became citizen of few countries, just to improve it).

PS: I have read the manual of each device that I own. Lucky there were few, as I like the minimalism.
And yes, I built from basically "zero ground" few computers, furniture, a car, up to full functional objects. Maybe I am a "crack" in this environment ("disaster recovery").
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 03:02:59 PM by nick65go »

Offline windundgeist

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Re: Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2021, 06:27:22 AM »
@nick65go

The style and content of your posts here remind me a lot of golinux, the administrator of the external Devuan forum.

Offline nick65go

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Re: Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2021, 10:57:29 AM »
The style and content of your posts here remind me a lot of golinux, the administrator of the external Devuan forum.
I hope you had a nice experience with that guy (because I do not know him/her). Me, I am more like a chameleon, or maybe a cyborg. Not a zeolot of ephemere trends. Bravo to you, if you stand a honest push-back. 
Anyway, back on the main subject, I shared my personal opinion that tinycore (or dcore) is not suitable (IMHO) for novice users with their insatiable apetite for more, and new and bloat and free and ...

Any spare resources should be wise managed. In history (until now) few "one man orchestra" linux sites were succesfuly for long time. Life happens when you plan for other things.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2021, 11:13:52 AM by nick65go »

Offline PDP-8

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Re: Is dCore the TinyCore for beginners?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2021, 04:15:10 AM »
Windungeist - you understand that this is an unpaid volunteer project right?  By a small handful of people who have a life to live other than TC?

Accept TC / dCore for what they are right now, and if something needs improvement, YOU give back.  That means dealing with the current situation, learning the ropes, and lend a helping hand.

All I've seen are demands.  If you take the time to learn it - as with all things that are of value - it takes time.  You will be far more satisfied to learn, rather than with "one click" solutions, and quite frankly your wishes to productize TC for your website demographic is a real turn off.

How about this - a highly polished version of Debian for PC / Mac from the people who brought you the raspberry pi who wished to have a similar desktop on their PC's.

It has additional polishing of the UI interface from a Mac guy to make it even easier for noobs - whatever their age.  This pc/mac desktop version has changed names a few times, but here it is:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/software/raspberry-pi-desktop/

It is a very nice system, one which works well on limited resources, even 1gb both 32 and 64 bit.  Special thanks to the guy who provided additional UI interface cleanups of the typical linux window managers to make it even more understandable for beginners.

I seriously suggest you take a look at that.  Don't let the seemingly large iso size fool you.  Much of that is the obligatory LibreOffice suite.  And some other offerings that users can delete and mix-n-match to their hearts content.

I think this will suit your (and those of inexperienced new users) much better.  That is, until they understand the "groove" of uniqueness that is TC / dCore.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 04:37:31 AM by PDP-8 »
That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth