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Author Topic: ? the hardcore of utopic minimalism ? how should a really minimalist linux be !?  (Read 2940 times)

Offline xor

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? the hardcore of utopic minimalism !!!
? how should a really minimalist linux be !?
? Do you really need folders !?
! if you remove the folders; You don't have to generate unnecessary data to recreate 1000's of folders.
and also virtual file links, ie symbolic links, will not be needed for virtual directory access.
the solution is actually that simple; there is actually nothing more than a ram disk package content produced from read-only content!

File names can be updated if necessary to avoid confusion,
but this will be a more efficient way than generating a folder or virtual link link. :)


In tinycore's early days some time was spent to optimise the creation of extension symlinks, but any patch suggestions that make things quicker would be gratefully received.

only ; Imagine all the (system) files being in just one folder, everything together. :) that is all.

yes that could bring some radical changes,
but there is no progress without change.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 10:35:21 PM by xor »

Offline xor

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Search Results ! Symbolic link (virtual redirect file) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link

14671 ( 3106 folder ) & ( 11565 files )

« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 09:20:53 AM by Rich »

Offline xor

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(If google can find the meanings of the translation words, it translates well. But it may not be able to compare the cultural equivalents correctly :)

"TCL" Search Results ! 14671 ( 3106 folder ) & ( 11565 files ) Symbolic link (virtual redirect file) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link

Quote
Everything is a File

One of the unique things about Unix as an operating system is that regards everything as a file. Files can be divided into three categories; ordinary or plain files, directories, and special or device files.

folder paradox !!?

human as system user; visually, they can see what they are looking for more easily with the concept of folder, or find them hypothetically. or uses search commands.

If it finds it with the search command, a "folder concept" visual folder will be meaningless content.

and more no matter what operating system it is.
in file system format; even a file without a folder; regardless of which directory it is in. puts it in a firist list that classifies file properties.

To sum up
folders; It was created with the idea of ​​providing easy access;
but it produces unnecessary road paths,
and folder structures generate redundant data.

and other problems it creates
"symbolic link" virtual folder redirectors
"symbolic link" virtual file redirectors

In summary, here, the understanding of generating 1 solution creates 3 different unnecessary resource consuming problems with itself.

Of course, the folders to be created by the end user must be some kind of personal preferences.

the solution is extremely simple, yet radical at the same time.
this solution is that simple; It is possible with a solution that will break the routine of those who have memorized unix and its derivatives for years.

what about the security standards !?

Since the access of a folder and the access of a file depend on the same structure, there is actually no situation that can create any change.

I am not a ruling king here.
I just want to identify what makes sense and show it to everyone.
maybe in this forum my suggestion is really taken seriously.
or is not taken seriously or has someone thinking of doing their own independent distribution in the future perhaps someday
with a truly independent mindset ; They can try what previous linux developers feared to experience.

technical only problem!
transferring all folders and virtual file links that the end user will not personalize to the base directory
basic structural address search of all existing files
This is a problem with virtual directory folders that are redirected to the home directory instead of the folders that actually exist! it can reduce 99% of the resource consumption.

like this 2nd renaissance.

Thank you for listening to my ideas and thoughts and spending time on it.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 01:55:20 AM by xor »

Offline nick65go

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To implement new concepts, it needs agreement and WORK.
MS Windows NT has cut the link with MS windows 98 because MS DOS bloat back-COMPATIBILITY draging it down.Same is for Linux. We need modern applications (not using hard-core links into former /urs/bin etc, just use one /folder). It can be done but it depends on UPSTREAM developers of applications (libreoffice, vlc, firefox etc).

A system without applications is as useless as a library without books.
Then it is "time is money" concept, so "if it is not broken, then do not fix it" approach. For a small developers team like TC it will be hard work, with little benefits. Big teams like archlinux, fedora maybe could implement it. Look, even alpine linux got atraction slowly, and it just try to replace libc with musl.Maybe you are right, but you bark up the wrong tree.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 02:12:28 AM by nick65go »

Offline xor

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A solution with itself causes problems 3 times bigger than itself. I had to express this in some way.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 04:40:00 AM by Rich »

Offline nick65go

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Offline xor

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anyone can produce a philosophy.
Software production used to be an engineering job.
now it is something that even I can rightfully criticize!
what I can understand from unix (linux) philosophy;
The unix (linux) operating system can access all physical system resources.
According to this point of view; a script file for an application is more than enough to handle every job.
And as a result, 40-odd years have passed since the 1970s. :)
the truth of the past, the truth of this day; not the same.

* In the past, minimalism was a necessity because hardware resources were very limited.

* now minimalism is a necessity as unnecessary resource consumption has reached enormous levels!

In this respect only the hourglass flows in reverse, from the philosophical point of view!

How logical do you find the philosophy of restructuring.

and an alpha and beta developer teams should be formed on these issues!?

The works we do alone without support,
It cannot go beyond being a personal memory,
In this respect, group work is important

Enjoy the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar linux development arhitecture.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 03:52:47 AM by xor »

Offline nick65go

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Hey! I am not against your ideas. I am for minimalism to the bones.Even for any OS (linux, windows, whatever) and for any processor type (x86, arm, whatever). Look at Intel chips, spying on us from OS burnt on CPUs (with Minix file-system inside chip).

Anyone can issue ideas, some with briliant ideas, others just vomit ideas. It is about who does the work and the reward. Unfortunately is a capitalist world (money first, America first, whatever shit first); it is about optimizing between time, resources, knowledge, priorities.
 
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 04:41:43 AM by nick65go »

Offline Rich

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Hi xor
You are complaining complaining about 16378 links occupying 619089 bytes????
That's less than 1 megabyte.
I would say you could not be more petty, but I'm sure that's not true.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 07:18:08 AM by Rich »

Offline xor

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this is only virtual link content!
There is also the physical folder part of it.
that means 2x times, no matter where you look.

at the points where the system replicates itself; total ram consumption will not be less than 5 MB

You created TCL with the ideal of creating a linux that can work even on the lowest hardware system! :)

« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 04:36:47 AM by Rich »

Offline xor

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!!! all in one directory; no folder, no folder link, no file link! ???
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2020, 03:39:38 AM »
folderless operating system

all in one directory; no folder, no folder link, no file link!

how do i do that !?

files in all folders to the home directory; to rename and move the folder name;

/A / apps1.so => /A--apps1.so
/A / B / apps2.so => /A-B--apps2.so
/A / B / C / apps3.so => /A-B-C--apps3.so

it will be easier and more practical to analyze in such rows :)
I don't want to get lost in word mazes anymore. :)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 04:01:46 AM by xor »

Offline xor

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folderless operating system ; no folder, no folder link, no file link !!! :)
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2020, 04:26:07 AM »
folderless operating system ; no folder, no folder link, no file link !!! :)

folderless operating system

google search result

It's even nice to be in the same mind with ibm engineering :)

Quote
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/fi/ssw_ibm_i_71/cl/movdoc.htm#MOVDOC.TOFLR

To folder (TOFLR)

Specifies the name of the folder into which the document is being moved. A folder name must be entered in this parameter if a document name is entered in the Rename (RENAME) parameter.

*NONE
    The document is to become a folderless object. If you specify TOFLR(*NONE), the document becomes folderless and can only be referred to by its system object name.
name
    Specify the name of the folder that is to contain the document.

Quote
https://www.gao.gov/products/ggd-87-54
,,,
Pursuant to a congressional request, GAO examined productivity at six Social Security Administration (SSA) program service centers (PSC).
,,,
 GAO concluded that management could make greater use of existing performance data to enhance PSC productivity efforts and save costs by utilizing opportunities for folderless processing and implementing local computer applications at all PSC

I hope it's something as good as your word meaning :)

Offline Rich

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Hi xor
You have taken both of those links out of context.

The IBM link deals with database programming (SQL), not operating systems or Linux.
"folderless object" does not mean what you think it does.
 ...
Quote
----- Snip -----

*NONE
    The document is to become a folderless object. If you specify TOFLR(*NONE), the document becomes folderless and can only be referred to by its system object name.

 ----- Snip -----
...
The  system object name  includes the folder names.

The GAO link is a report from 1987.
It refers to the Social Security Administration moving from paper file folders to computer files.

Offline Rich

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Hi xor
... files in all folders to the home directory; to rename and move the folder name;

/A / apps1.so => /A--apps1.so
/A / B / apps2.so => /A-B--apps2.so
/A / B / C / apps3.so => /A-B-C--apps3.so ...
So you want to move:
Code: [Select]
/usr/local/bin/firefoxTo:
Code: [Select]
/usr-local-bin-firefoxYou have just changed the name of firefox.
Any program that tries to open a link (email client for example) will fail because the firefox name no longer exists.
Doing this for the whole system will change the name of every program.
Programs will no longer be able to run other programs.
What you are suggesting will make your computer unusable.
A simpler and faster way to do that would be to unplug it.

Offline xor

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Firstly;
I knew it was unreasonable to extend the filename unnecessarily :)
No need to rename if filenames are unique!

2nd;
There are too many virtual routing files in the system
unix base folders; like a dead end
and so it needs redirect files.

the most basic file directories; If you redirect to the lowest folder.
Instead of a 1000-odd virtual folder; You only use 10 virtual folders.

Are you aware of how practical this is!? :)