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Author Topic: [Solved] Issues related to the Linux package manager  (Read 293 times)

Offline Trump

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[Solved] Issues related to the Linux package manager
« on: July 23, 2020, 06:51:31 AM »
Hello friends!
first one, It is recommended TCL to add support for various common package managers such as dpk (apt-xxx),yum, rpm, dnf, pkg...

I think it would be better if a single package management software could be used to achieve unified management.

I also wonder why Linux can't be like other operating systems, such as Windows (.exe), Android (.apk)... Wouldn't it be easier to use the same package format? Why go for uniqueness? Isn't Linux officially unified?

Finally, is there a way to install packages in different formats on different Linux systems? For example: I now want to install *.deb,*.rpm,*.txz under TCL. What should I do?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 05:13:17 AM by Rich »

Offline Sashank999

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2020, 07:12:08 AM »
TCL x64 has rpm package manager available and can be installed from Apps.

Linux isn't officially unified. Linux can be customised. Each want their own changes in their own style. Thats why we have these many distros and package managers.

If you want debian packages a.k.a .deb files, use dCore. dCore is (almost) same as TCL but, TCL uses .tcz and dCore uses .sce. Even I didn't know dCore at first. I am now trying to setup wifi on dCore x64.

Online Rich

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2020, 07:25:03 AM »
Hi NOOB
If you want to use packages from other distros, take a look at dCore:
https://www.linuxsecrets.com/tinycorelinux-wiki/dcore:welcome.html

Offline Trump

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2020, 08:55:14 AM »
If you want debian packages a.k.a .deb files, use dCore. dCore is (almost) same as TCL but, TCL uses .tcz and dCore uses .sce. Even I didn't know dCore at first. I am now trying to setup wifi on dCore x64.
If some software only provides. Deb and does not provide source code, does that mean that my system cannot use one software, and to use it, I have to reinstall another system? Is that right?

Offline Sashank999

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2020, 07:29:15 PM »
Debian and Ubuntu have source code archives present in the package's webpage

To download Debian .deb packages, dCore is enough. Yes, you need dCore.

Offline Trump

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2020, 08:29:59 PM »
Debian and Ubuntu have source code archives present in the package's webpage
So I can recompile *.deb after downloading the source code and run it on TCL/CP64?

Offline Sashank999

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2020, 08:44:04 PM »
Yes. You can get the source code, compile them, make a tcz and use it if you wish without migrating to dCore. If you want to help other new users, you could even submit the tcz to the repository so that others can download it without the hassle of compiling.

Usually I do that on TCL 64 but I get the source code from github or gitlab. It doesn't matter.

Offline Trump

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2020, 09:06:55 PM »
If you want to help other new users, you could even submit the tcz to the repository so that others can download it without the hassle of compiling.
I'm happy to help others just like you guys, the question is how do I submit TCZ to repo?

Offline Sashank999

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2020, 09:18:54 PM »
https://www.linuxsecrets.com/tinycorelinux-wiki/wiki:creating_extensions.html

Read the last "Submission" heading. It is recommended to read the whole article(If you have the patience and some time. Else, read from "Testing".).

Offline Trump

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2020, 09:32:05 PM »
https://www.linuxsecrets.com/tinycorelinux-wiki/wiki:creating_extensions.html

Read the last "Submission" heading. It is recommended to read the whole article(If you have the patience and some time. Else, read from "Testing".).
Ok, thank you. I see.

Offline marcelocripe

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2020, 09:41:41 AM »
NOOB,

Quote
I also wonder why Linux can't be like other operating systems, such as Windows (.exe), Android (.apk) ... Wouldn't it be easier to use the same package format? Why go for uniqueness? Isn't Linux officially unified?

I'm also a beginner in the Linux world, just like you, I ask the same questions ...

In another forum or website, I don't remember where I read it, but I more or less remember the very clever text from a colleague, who said something like this "... if the developers of the various Linux distributions came together, there would be fewer distributions Linux ..., but the development would be much bigger and better used the time of each one of them ... "

If you don't know anything about the various Linux distributions, https://distrowatch.com/, can help you to confuse you even more or not! ..., maybe it will give you an overview of the giant world that exists with regard to Linux distributions.

You will still be surprised at how most Linux distributions manage installation files, spread everything, programs in other Linux distros or Linux distributions are called packages, with parts of the programs or packages being installed in separate directories , for those who come from the world MS Windows sees this as a mess, at least that's how I see it, although some programs for Windows do the same, the "mess".

I have already mentioned this a few times, it would be easier if the entire program with all its dependencies (without the dependencies the program does not work) were compressed and it would be much easier if it were just unzipping, pasting the folder in the appropriate place, creating the icon shortcut for the common user and ready, to update, it would just be to manually delete the folder and replace it with another one ...

Tiny Core, as far as I was able to learn and understand, is much more organized, all programs (called Tiny Core extensions or applications or App), are downloaded or installed all in the same folder.

In case I am explaining something wrong, which is not my intention, I ask, please, the most experienced to correct me.

This link, on "How to install extensions and updates on Tiny Core Plus on a computer without internet access?"
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,23630.msg148792.html#msg148792, can be useful.

I always installed offline programs on Windows and now, thanks to the help and lessons I got here from colleagues on this forum, I can do the same on Tiny Core Plus 11.0 or 11.1, which for me is the best way and the safest way to if you install programs or extensions.

You will be surprised by the Tiny Core Plus, extremely light, unfortunately it does not have a translation into my Brazilian Portuguese language, which makes it difficult for ordinary users to obtain basic use, especially with regard to application programs (LibreOffice, Abiword, GNumeric, Inkscape and etc)

I wish you good luck, don't give up, here you will be surrounded by good people.

marcelocripe

Original text in Brazilian Portuguese, translation into English by Google Translate.

------------

NOOB,

Quote
I also wonder why Linux can't be like other operating systems, such as Windows (.exe), Android (.apk) ... Wouldn't it be easier to use the same package format? Why go for uniqueness? Isn't Linux officially unified?

Eu também sou iniciante no mundo Linux, da mesma forma que você, faço os mesmos questionamentos ...

Em um outro fórum ou site, eu não me lembro onde eu li, mas me lembro mais ou menos do texto  muito inteligente de um colega, que dizia algo assim "... se os desenvolvedores das várias distribuições Linux se unissem, haveriam menos distribuições Linux ... , mas o desenvolvimento seria muito maior e melhor aproveitado o tempo de cada um deles ..."

Se você não conhece nada das várias distribuições Linux, o https://distrowatch.com/, pode te ajudar a te confundir ainda mais ou não! ... , talvez te dê uma visão geral sobre o mundo gigante que existe no que diz respeito as distribuições Linux.

Você ainda vai estranhar com a forma como a maioria das distribuições Linux gerenciam os arquivos de instalação, espalham tudo, os programas,  nas outras distro Linux ou distribuições Linux, são  chamados de pacotes, sendo que partes dos programas ou pacotes são instalados em diretórios separados, para quem vem do mundo MS Windows enxerga isso como bagunça, pelo menos é assim que eu vejo isso, se bem que alguns programas para Windows faz o mesmo, a "bagunça".

Eu já citei isso algumas vezes, seria mais fácil se todo o programa com todas as suas dependências (sem as dependências o programa não funciona) fossem compactados e seria muito mais fácil se fosse apenas descompactar, colar a pasta no local adequado, criar o ícone de atalho para o usuário comum e pronto, para atualizar, seria só apagar manualmente a pasta e substituir por outra ...

O Tiny Core, até onde consegui aprender e compreender, é bem mais organizado, todos os programas (chamados no Tiny Core de extensões ou aplicativos ou App), são baixados ou instalados todos na mesma pasta.

Caso eu esteja explicando algo errado, o que não é a minha intenção, eu peço, por favor, aos mais experientes para me corrigirem.

Este link, sobre "How to install extensions and updates on Tiny Core Plus on a computer without internet access?"
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,23630.msg148792.html#msg148792, pode ser útil.

Eu sempre instalei programas offline no Windows e agora, graças a ajuda e ensinamentos que tive aqui dos colegas deste fórum, eu consigo fazer o mesmo no Tiny Core Plus 11.0 ou 11.1, o que para mim é a melhor forma e é a mais segura para se instalar programas ou extensões.

Você irá se surpreender com o Tiny Core Plus, extremamente leve, infelizmente não possui tradução para o meu idioma Português do Brasil, o que dificulta para aos usuários comuns o conseguirem obter o uso básico, principalmente no que diz respeito aos programas aplicativos (LibreOffice, Abiword, GNumeric, Inkscape e etc)

Te desejo boa sorte, não desista, aqui você estará rodeados de boas pessoas.

marcelocripe

Texto original em português do brasil, tradução para o inglês por Google Tradutor.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 09:45:41 AM by marcelocripe »

Offline Trump

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2020, 10:38:31 AM »
I wish you good luck, don't give up, here you will be surrounded by good people.
Thank you very much for sharing the information with me, I feel very useful. Thank you again.

Offline Trump

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2020, 11:32:59 AM »
Original text in Brazilian Portuguese, translation into English by Google Translate.
Hi marcelocripe! In fact, you only need to use English or try to use English to communicate here. This will save time and server resources, and maybe improve your English communication skills. After all, English is the common language for international groups and the Internet.

Offline PDP-8

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2020, 02:50:29 PM »
I think it would help to limit the scope of the forums that these requests are made in, or at least summarize the results that this is repeatedly seen in other projects I've been involved with also:

TinyCore
AntiX
Slitaz

Just for starters, there may be more.  I'll have to check the Porteus forums too.

Basically, what I read all over is not that you do not really favor one distribution over any other, but are trying to drive them into some sort of organized mission to revolutionize linux for old discarded computers that have no internet access.

Why you don't simply download 4GB of Knoppix, or any other distribution with an already large repository of programs in their release isos, but concentrate on tiny linux distributions as a starting point is beyond me.

Maybe it's time to forget the CD - even with the old computers your mission is targeting, and move towards those that will boot from usb sticks.  Like Knoppix with 4gb or more of usable programs.

We've been down this road before.  And on AntiX, Slitaz, and elsewhere.

You've made your mission-statement.  Let's see how that plays out.  It's not a new concept.
That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline PDP-8

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Re: Issues related to the Linux package manager
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2020, 03:55:32 PM »
mercelocripe - let's not beat around the bush.

Your idea is wonderful of course.

However, after reading the many requests for the same thing on many forums, what we REALLY have going on is this:

You'd like to have the devs and community members of this and other communities, change their package management strategies to fit YOUR goals.

You choose "small / tiny" distros on purpose to support decades old computers with limited ram and storage, rather than go with some of the bigger distros, rather than just hand out Knoppix bootable usb sticks for example.

Nothing is really contributed BACK to the devs and members of this/those communities, nor advancing the state of the art of the existing projects.

Frankly, if this mission of yours was so important, YOU would have done it already with the tools provided by the various projects.  Or, you would have enlisted / hired a group of like-minded individuals to do so.

In other words, TinyCore doesn't really matter.  Nor any of the other communities.  All that you want to happen is that those communities do the work under the helpful guide of you as project manager.

This is meant to be constructive, not personal.  What I'm saying is that fostering ideas can be ok, but at some point, they come to ask themselves "who is this project-manager guy running from distro to distro" who is clearly not really interested in our project itself?

That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth