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Author Topic: Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !  (Read 586 times)

Offline Sashank999

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Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !
« on: July 20, 2020, 02:08:42 AM »
Hello my dear frustated Windows 10 users !

Let me share my methods and ideas here. I also included my experiences here. This would be like a guide.

I am a normal Lenovo Laptop user with an Intel i3 CPU, 2 GB of RAM, 250GB HDD, BIOS and shipped with Windows® 7. I had updated it to Windows 10 (Too much excited about this in the start ;) ). Then the problem started  :( .

The lag-free experience of Windows 7 wasn't there. "Everything" in my PC lagged. The worst thing is that it also lagged the Control Panel, Search Bar and even that simple Windows menu. That Windows bootloader was slow. That AI in Win 10 (I think you know the name ;) ) made me think that my PC is just useless(as it hanged the Search Bar always) and it didn't even had a disable switch.

Just in that time, my knowledge and interest in Linux began (it started as I saw linux in YT Wi-Fi hacking videos ;) ). I came across many Linux Distro (just visit their website, see the features, see them hacking Wi-Fi in some YT videos, be amazed). But the internet data usage of them just made me discard them (Believe me. I always consider data usage as a requirement too ;D). My quest for an alternative to Windows 10 and a minimalistic, full-featured, customisable, light, noob-friendly Linux Distro began.....

That made me visit DSL (from some Google searches, obviously) and then "Tiny Core Linux".

A minimalistic OS that suits my Internet Data Usage, Disk Usage. It also has very little installation issues. You have a very good forum and a minimalistic OS that suits you and your laptop. What else would anyone even want ?

Just grab the Coreplus (if you want Wi-Fi, else borrow Core for Ethernet Users), burn it to a USB, boot up, install, done :) .
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 02:16:11 AM by Sashank999 »

Offline PDP-8

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Re: Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2020, 03:32:58 AM »
Great suggestion, but I would temper that a little bit:

If one is simply wanting to transition from a Windows mindset, then perhaps Ubuntu, or any number of other full-sized distros would be a great start.  And then come *back* to TinyCore if you want to turn wrenches.

One problem is that your machine, which is pre-Windows 8, does not mandate the use of UEFI.  Modern machines, especially those of Windows 10, may be uefi-ONLY, and have no transitionary legacy/csm options.

In cases where the system is locked down with "Secure Boot", then distros that supply "shims" will cause less first-time user frustration.  OR, if they are willing to do so, go into their bios and DISable "secure boot" for those distros without that support.

In addition, most modern Windows 8+ machines are 64 bit, and coreplus may not boot, leaving them scratching their heads, not knowing this.

Also, the simple "burn and boot" ers of iso's may be similarly frustrated by not knowing that the 64-bit iso's, are not actually bootable as-is on most uefi/only machines.  They must come to the forum to find out how to get around this.

This is not a fault of TinyCore - but the neophyte user may be dismayed viewing blogs, videos, and other such projects showing how easy it is to just use their existing o/s to "burn an iso" like it was in the past with older gear, be it from cdrom, or even usb sticks.

Hence, they may think that TC is at fault, and move on, since it doesn't follow what today would be considered the norm.

Again - not a fault of TC itself.  Just changing times and expectations.

That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline Sashank999

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Re: Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2020, 04:49:34 AM »
Hi PDP-8,

I think a simple tutorial on the Downloads or the Intro page is enough for the UEFI-only machines. People who want more flexibility or more minimalism should do some hard work.

Offline mocore

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Re: Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2020, 06:30:10 AM »
Modern machines, especially those of Windows 10, may be uefi-ONLY, and have no transitionary legacy/csm options.


in both cases , clover boot-loader could be something to consider 
Quote from: aioboot.com/en/clover-bootloader-windows
Clover Bootloader supports booting in both UEFI and Legacy modes. Interestingly, it supports UEFI firmware emulation, this allows us to boot into UEFI mode from Legacy mode. It is capable of booting .efi files even if Clover is booted in Legacy BIOS.
- https://www.aioboot.com/en/clover-bootloader-windows/


Offline nick65go

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Re: Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2020, 11:08:30 AM »

One problem is that your machine, which is pre-Windows 8, does not mandate the use of UEFI.  Modern machines, especially those of Windows 10, may be uefi-ONLY, and have no transitionary legacy/csm options.
...Again - not a fault of TC itself.  Just changing times and expectations.
In UEFI mode (without secure-boot): TC has core64. And it is booting in UEFI, see grub in iso/[boot]/EFI/.
maybe @curaga or @juanito could clarify this one for all, to avoid this confusion. So tinycore64.iso can boot in UEFI mode!


In addition, most modern Windows 8+ machines are 64 bit, and coreplus may not boot, leaving them scratching their heads, not knowing this.
in BIOS mode: any machine on 64 bits can run 32 bits programs.
The only "bug" is "UEFI + secure-boot=on". QED.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 11:16:14 AM by nick65go »

Offline PDP-8

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Re: Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2020, 02:11:36 PM »
Here's the beautiful solution which makes this much less of a problem:

One can download and burn dCore 64 bit using dd, commercial windows-only utilities, a mac, or even a Chromebook utilizing the system-restore utility trick to produce a bootable stick.  Disable secure-boot if using windows.  That's all it takes.

From there, you can gather the tools necessary (gparted, grub bootloaders, tc distribution files) and manually build a stick that will be recognized by your target machine upon reboot.  Juanito provided an excellent example on how to do this from the commandline.

So that clears up a chicken-and-egg scenario for a modern user without a pile of vintage gear hanging around.

Obviously one can use any other distro that is burn-n-boot to gather all these tools to make TC, but it's *really* nice to keep it in the family so that dCore will also do this for you now.

Personally, I make my own sticks for uefi-only when I get bored of putting 3rd-party multibooter or other techniques to get TC64 up on a uefi-only environment.

However, I *LIKE* using user-contributed tools, like tc-install or tc-install-gui because I'm enjoy using the work of user-contributed tools, which people put a lot of hard work into.  (currently the installers don't do uefi-only...)

Sure I can bang out a stick on my own using the standard formatting / partitioning / distro files / bootload and config.

But that makes it a sanitized lonely party of one.  When I use the work of others, such as tc-install, I feel part of a community and want to contribute back somehow in my own way, be it additional extensions, whatever.

Burning my own self-partitioned / formatted uefi-only stick is just a technical exercise I can do.  But there's nothing particularly exciting from a community aspect doing so.

That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline PDP-8

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Re: Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2020, 02:49:07 PM »
From there, you can gather the tools necessary (gparted, grub bootloaders, tc distribution files) and manually build a stick that will be recognized by your target machine upon reboot.  Juanito provided an excellent example on how to do this from the commandline.

Oops - forgot to make this clear - you can boot and use dCore to gather tools to make the TinyCorePure64 stick uefi-only bootable manually.
That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline TD15

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Re: Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2020, 10:01:37 PM »
I would rather use a minimalistic desktop distro like lxle over tiny core. Tiny core is more suited for very underpowered devices.

Offline Sashank999

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Re: Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2020, 10:22:42 PM »
LXLE has its last release on Sep 8, 2019 which is very old. There may be many bugfixes, many drivers, many apps created till now. TCL is updated atleast 2x a year (my opinion). So, I prefer TCL. We have a number of extensions and their creators. We have a base system that is purely pur and doesn't ever clash with other linux systems. TCL can be concentrated into one folder (or a max of 2 if you have grub problems). And unlike their 1 GB ISOs, ours is far more smaller, better and customisable.

Offline PDP-8

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Re: Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2020, 02:58:32 AM »
@td15

Actually that is not true about TC being suitable only for underpowered devices.  I think it's unfortunate it gets that rap elsewhere.

Maybe because what many newcomers can't distinguish is that TC (and sisters like dCore / piCore) is that they are not in fact "distros", but toolkits.  Roberts and crew grew away from that responsibility of maintaining the ever-changing world of desktop distributions starting with DSL-N, and instead provided tools so that the end-user decides upon what should be done with TC.

What you do with that toolkit is up to you.  Run it on old or new hardware.  In a vm, or on real hardware.  Anything from a cli-only shell prompt, to the latest that the contributors can package.  Do your own thing.  Make it yours.  Own it.

An interesting thing to note is that many new users come from a world where the "distro" is all they've ever known, and may get frustrated with TC "why can't it be more like X-distro?"

The problem is that only the end user can decide what TC means to them - and how much effort they are willing to put in to make it theirs, and NOT try to merely duplicate what others do.  And don't just rely on forum answers.  Self-reliance from your own discroveries, can be so satisfying.

So give it time - maybe TC will hold your interest sometime later.  Don't try to put TC into some sort of pre-defined box since it isn't a distro.

Just to show I'm not a TC fanboy - get this - half the time I don't want to deal with it all, and I read these forums not from any sort of "competing" distro, but from a Chromebook!



« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 03:02:32 AM by PDP-8 »
That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline andyj

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Re: Frustated Windows 10 users - Come here !
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2020, 04:06:15 AM »
TC isn't my desktop, that's Slackware. I do use TC for servers and even then I use it in VM's. What I like is that I can install only the service I need, so it's like Docker but with better isolation. I don't make VM's with no disks and very little memory because I have to, but because I can. I can upgrade software and reboot in less than a minute. They have about as small an attack surface as possible, which makes them ideal for internet facing servers.