WelcomeWelcome | FAQFAQ | DownloadsDownloads | WikiWiki

Author Topic: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?  (Read 499 times)

Offline labeas

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?
« on: May 22, 2019, 03:07:04 PM »
If you bought a new laptop over the last few years, it would be a
UEFI/Win10-based system.

The one I bought 3 years ago needed a lot of pain/effort to find
how to handle the UEFI restriction and install linux from USBstiks.

Now this new UEFI/Win10 laptop does not follow the same sequence to
avoid the UEFI restriction; which together with grub2-multi, makes
for much problematic confusion.

grub2-multi.tcz seems to avoid the UEFI restriction, but given samples
fail with strange error messages [and dead kybrd].
Let's see if there's a <man grub2-multi> ?
-----------------------
Code: [Select]
-> cd /mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi
-> Rce-load -i grub2-multi.tcz
root@box:/home/tc# which grub2-multi
root@box:/home/tc# cd /mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi# Rce-load -i grub2-multi.tcz
grub2-multi is already installed!
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi# which grub2-multi
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi#

???

    [EDIT]: Added code tags.  Rich
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 05:16:55 PM by Rich »

Offline Rich

  • TinyCore Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6599
Re: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2019, 05:28:59 PM »
Hi labeas
...
Code: [Select]
-> cd /mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi
-> Rce-load -i grub2-multi.tcz
root@box:/home/tc# which grub2-multi
root@box:/home/tc# cd /mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi# Rce-load -i grub2-multi.tcz
grub2-multi is already installed!
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi# which grub2-multi
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi#
The  which  command is used to find programs. There is no program called  grub2-multi  in  grub2-multi.tcz.

Quote
grub2-multi.tcz seems to avoid the UEFI restriction, but given samples
fail with strange error messages [and dead kybrd].
If you don't show the commands you typed and the error messages you received then no one can help you.

Offline mocore

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
Re: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2019, 12:59:47 AM »
Code: [Select]
...
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi# which grub2-multi
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi#
The  which  command is used to find programs. There is no program called  grub2-multi  in  grub2-multi.tcz.

hi

to find the programs in the grub2-multi tcz extension
try
Code: [Select]
find /tmp/tcloop/grub2-multi/ type -f

Offline labeas

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2019, 07:16:10 PM »
>  to find the programs in the grub2-multi tcz extension
>   try
>      Code: [Select]
>         find /tmp/tcloop/grub2-multi/ type -f

? You mean:
 find /tmp/tcloop/grub2-multi/ -type f
---------------------
-> df == ...
/dev/loop17          476      476         0 100% /tmp/tcloop/links
/dev/loop18         1216     1216         0 100% /tmp/tcloop/mc
...
/dev/loop23            8        8         0 100% /tmp/tcloop/wifi
/dev/loop24           60       60         0 100% /tmp/tcloop/wily

-> find /tmp/tcloop/mc/ -type f | wc -l == 235
-> find /tmp/tcloop/wily/ -type f | wc -l == 1
 wily: the killer app from the 90s 2nd only to gpm !
-> find /tmp/tcloop/gpm/ -type f | wc -l == 14

You boys have failed to answer THE QUESTION which appears in
"Subject: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?"

If you're forced out of your comfort-zone:
  to USBstik-install tinycore to a new Win10 [of course] laptop,
  how do you handle the UEFI problem -- which seems to be never
  mentioned in TC documents ?

Offline Rich

  • TinyCore Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6599
Re: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 07:30:13 PM »
Hi labeas
... You boys have failed to answer THE QUESTION which appears in
"Subject: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?" ...
I don't understand what you are trying to ask.

Quote
If you're forced out of your comfort-zone:
  to USBstik-install tinycore to a new Win10 [of course] laptop,
  how do you handle the UEFI problem -- which seems to be never
  mentioned in TC documents ?
Installing to a USB stick is covered here:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,19364.msg119228.html#msg119228

Online PDP-8

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
Re: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2019, 04:16:10 AM »
Ah, think I understand the actual question now. :)

Solution: Windows 10 hardware is never guaranteed to work with ALL linux distros.  But basically one does this:

1) Only run distros that have paid the tax for the microsoft approved uefi key.

2) OR, be sure to turn OFF "secure boot" and try again.

3) Make sure you have burnt the iso in a UEFI compatible format.  That is, there must be a small vfat uefi boot partition, followed by another partition with the filesystem format of your choice.

You can run the distribution's own tools to make this, or follow instructions on how to do so manually.

Or, you can grab a burning tool for Windows like RUFUS, use the GPT (uefi only) format for burning and try that.  Turn secure boot off recommended.

Cross fingers - some Windows 10 laptops are harder than others to get running.  Seek advice and reviews from other Linux users *before* purchase.

Ever try running Crux on a 2005-era Apple G5 Imac, with a so-called "open boot" system?  Same kind of deal.  You have to put some work into it - nothing is plug-n-play guaranteed.  That's part of the fun.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 04:21:09 AM by PDP-8 »
That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline labeas

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2019, 01:01:47 AM »
I'm writing from W10; so can't see [to just paste my evidence].

PDP-8 wrote:-
>  <or disable secure boot>

AFAIR the <Aptio 2015> laptop allowed toggling secure-boot
 able/disable.
I failed to find such facilities on this <Aptio 2018>.
But our <senior researcher> reports that the supplier admits
that secure-boot/lock-out is not [yet] implemented.
So mere F7 after power-up, shows the list of all USBs plugged.
I guess the fact that syslinux-based USBstik of <Aptio15 box>
 fails to boot: is because it needs UEFI ability?
 

Online PDP-8

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
Re: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2019, 04:01:11 AM »
I have just one of my machines that doesn't like TC64 and syslinux.  So I used grub 2.x and that worked.

I see you've tried it before and it didn't work out so well?  I think we're all tapped out on ideas since we're not sitting at your keyboard and noticing that one variable that gets missed.

As a diagnostic aid, I can tell you that the YUMI-UEFI-0.0.16.exe version will properly burn TCpure64 to a stick.  If you want persistence, then make tce/optional directories in the root of the stick.  Add set gfxpayload=1920x1080x24 (or whatever your native res is) to the proper grub file.   I'll stop at this point since YUMI support is a different thread.  It doesn't have to look pretty at this point, but just boot properly.

Look for the UEFI specific version:
https://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/

If that works, then like me, you know you can take off the training-wheels and follow Juanito's excellent guide about grub burning and figure out where you may have gone wrong.

Other diagnostics include - can you boot a recent Knoppix?  Can you boot Porteus 4.0?  If you can, there is no reason you can't boot TCpure64, and may give you hints on where to look for what appears to be a corner-case (like my one weird box).
.


« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 04:05:40 AM by PDP-8 »
That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline labeas

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2019, 07:55:38 AM »
Thanks, I've filed that..
It's very unsatisfactory to just suck-it-and-see without UNDERSTNDING
the underlying theory; since I started IT from discrete transistor
bistables and hex-coding 8-bit uprocs.

==crg


Online PDP-8

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
Re: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2019, 02:16:52 PM »
I can relate.  As frustrating as it might seem, using diagnostic techniques such as these can help you find that one variable that seems to be missing or newly introduced in your environment.

I've been there - bang head against wall, get ego bruised, and then succumb to what shouldn't matter - and then there it is!

Trust me, you'll feel better. :)
That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth