WelcomeWelcome | FAQFAQ | DownloadsDownloads | WikiWiki

Author Topic: Pi 3B+  (Read 6007 times)

Offline kim

  • WikiUser
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Pi 3B+
« on: March 22, 2018, 06:42:52 AM »
Hi,

I'm using PiCore-9.0.3 and have been trying to get it work with Pi 3B+ without success.

I tried updating latest boot files from https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/boot and I got over the rainbow screen, but it seems that neither USB or wired network is functioning.

Is anyone working on a proper update for Pi 3B+ ?

Thanks,
Kim

Offline Paul_123

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2018, 07:58:43 AM »
Will not work with piCore until a new version is released.

New Bootloader, firmware and ethernet drivers are needed.

Offline gavinmc42

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2018, 04:09:21 AM »
What about just grabbing those boot files from the Raspberry Boot git?
https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/boot
I did that for a quick baremetal fix.

Now that 64bit Gentoo is running on the 3B+, how about a 64bit PiCore?




Offline bmarkus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6980
    • My Community Forum
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2018, 10:16:04 AM »
Now that 64bit Gentoo is running on the 3B+, how about a 64bit PiCore?

Why to have a 64-bit version?
Béla
Ham Radio callsign: HA5DI

"Amateur Radio: The First Technology-Based Social Network."

Offline gavinmc42

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2018, 04:01:13 AM »
Why 64 bit?

Aarch64 has more registers and better NEON access.
For Computer Vision and Machine learning etc, NEON can be used to accelerate these things.
https://github.com/ARM-software/ComputeLibrary.
Sometimes assembly must be used to get even more speed and tune code for speed.
64Bit to 128bit SIMD is faster than 32 to 128.

For robotics more speed/lower power of the Aarch64 helps save batteries.

Sure it can be done now on Pi's but it could be done a bit faster on the same hardware in 64bit mode.
https://community.arm.com/graphics/b/blog/posts/cartoonifying-images-on-raspberry-pi-with-the-compute-library

Some benchmarks I have seen shows 2.8 times improvement moving from 32 to 64bit.
That's like having a 4GHz Pi :P

OpenSuse, Gentoo, Fedora Aarch64 are all a bit big, er massive bloatware.
They make Server/Desktop general purpose OS's, not light OS's for single purpose use.
Most of these need serious work to make lite versions.
PiCore is the opposite, start light and only add needed stuff 8)
That to me sounds like what is needed for Robotics and Specific Purpose AI.

Don't even need X11 for most of those uses, but Mesa is now at a usable stage.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi_VC4
Eric Anholt has been pushing lots back upstream, the VC4/5 are getting support in the latest kernels too.
But all that is secondary, a PiCore kernel with busybox can do an awful lot for headless applications.

Mind you PiCore with TC is still a faster Desktop than others I have used, how much faster is it on the Pi3B+? :D

Offline bmarkus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6980
    • My Community Forum
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2018, 09:22:03 AM »

Some benchmarks I have seen shows 2.8 times improvement moving from 32 to 64bit.
That's like having a 4GHz Pi :P


It is a very misleading statement. I can imagine some very specific cases, e.g. codec, signal processing, etc. but for generic applications you will gain minimal.


Béla
Ham Radio callsign: HA5DI

"Amateur Radio: The First Technology-Based Social Network."

Offline gavinmc42

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2018, 06:36:30 PM »
"Some benchmarks I have seen shows 2.8 times improvement :o"

Yep, very misleading, I picked best case ;D
But for Neural networking and many other ML/CV 8 bit can be used in the NEON.
16x8 bit SIMD = 128bits, the trick is to keep as much as possible in the Aarch 64bit registers.
Putting stuff into NEON is twice as many cycles in 32bit Arm.

Understand, generic applications is not the reason to go to 64bit.
It may end up going to hand tuned assembly routines for CV/ML/NN to get best performance for a single purpose application.
Think single purpose Intelligent AI for IoT, not general purpose AI.

If I have to use assembly, I would rather learn to do it in 64bit mode.
The simpler 64 bit  instruction set should be easier to learn and there are twice as many registers.
If everything can be kept in the cache memory external memory access speed is less relevant.

Not sure what 64bit floating point is needed for?
Plus I have to figure in my age, by the time I actually learn to use it, 90-99% of Pi's made will be 64 bit :P
Not sure is I have time left to learn the more complex 32bit, it is just a hobby sort of ;)
Hopefully a 64bit Zero becomes available too, A35's use less power, have smaller die and should be cheaper.

Offline sdcoil

  • WikiUser
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2018, 12:52:56 PM »
FYI, piCore player as 3 B+ support ....

Offline PDP-8

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2018, 03:50:40 AM »
For me the 3B+ was more a matter of convenience of having the dual-band ac built in wireless, and possible use of POE with a proper hat for it in the future.

But, still limited to 1gb ram, so no enhancement from 64 bit there.

I'd be more interested to see if the latest stable 1.28.3 version of Busybox will run on it with a 32 bit kernel. But to each his own I guess...

cat -v Considered Harmful  -- Rob Pike

Offline bmarkus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6980
    • My Community Forum
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2018, 09:24:51 PM »
I'd be more interested to see if the latest stable 1.28.3 version of Busybox will run on it with a 32 bit kernel. But to each his own I guess...

piCore 10.0 beta already running here both on RPi3 B+ and the old RPI1. It is built in BusyBox 1.28.3, kernel 4.14.33, ...

Planning to release beta in a week time.
Béla
Ham Radio callsign: HA5DI

"Amateur Radio: The First Technology-Based Social Network."

Offline gavinmc42

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2018, 03:42:07 AM »
Hi Bela, will there be a 64bit ARMv8 kernel version as well?

Offline bmarkus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6980
    • My Community Forum
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2018, 05:33:20 AM »
Hi Bela, will there be a 64bit ARMv8 kernel version as well?

No
Béla
Ham Radio callsign: HA5DI

"Amateur Radio: The First Technology-Based Social Network."

Offline gavinmc42

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2018, 09:51:31 PM »
Is that a "no ARMv8 kernel, not this week" or "no, not ever"?

Got me kind of curious now, how do you make PiCore?

Offline bmarkus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6980
    • My Community Forum
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2018, 03:34:39 AM »
Is that a "no ARMv8 kernel, not this week" or "no, not ever"?


64-bit version of piCore is a low priority task, first new 32-bit must be released.

BTW, which 64-bit distro are you using on RPi?
Béla
Ham Radio callsign: HA5DI

"Amateur Radio: The First Technology-Based Social Network."

Offline gavinmc42

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
Re: Pi 3B+
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2018, 03:41:31 AM »
Quote
64-bit version of piCore is a low priority task, first new 32-bit must be released.
BTW, which 64-bit distro are you using on RPi?
https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi3-64bit
Sakaki is doing a great job with support and documentation too.
Showed me how to compile ARM's Compute Library.
Which is probably the first time that was done on a Aarch64 Pi?

Sakaki also figured out how to run 32bit stuff in Aarch64, which maybe another first?
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=211260
This could be useful for PiCore64, all those 32bit tcz's?

My problem is getting reliable SD/USB/SSD memory, my old stuff is getting worn out.
Still in testing phase, most Linux OS's wear out SD's with constant writes.
Some big compiles need like 4GB Swap files.

Goal is a Aarch64 development box for ARMv8A/NEON coding on Pi3B+.
At the moment I am thinking boot from SD, home and swap on USB drives.
Which is pretty much what I do with PiCore, just different partitions on same SD;)