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Author Topic: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)  (Read 1156 times)

Offline pq5190362

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2017, 03:24:37 AM »
The BIOS update is an .exe file; probably something I can run after installing windows, right? Not an 'image' that I can use in the BIOS maintenance utility.

But you said Windows 10 is already installed?

So I guess the question now is:
What is the probability that the BIOS update will actually solve the problem?

Why don't you just read the release notes:

Quote from: https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/swdetails/hp-14-bp000-laptop-pc/15551432/model/17320132 /swItemId/ob-192275-1

- Fixes an intermittent issue where the keyboard does not function properly after the system resumes from sleep (S3) mode.

?

 ::)

The BIOS update is an .exe file; probably something I can run after installing windows, right? Not an 'image' that I can use in the BIOS maintenance utility.

It seems like the .exe is an archive, which apparently can be extracted via 7-Zip and contains .bin files, which according to the instructions on the HP website is the kind of file type that is required to update through the firmware:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c00042629

Because if it doesn't, or something goes wrong, I may not be able to return the laptop to the dealer...

You are on your own with this, or maybe ask your dealer to do it for you.

I'd say that your problem is right there

No, I don't think so.

First of all: He has enabled legacy mode in the firmware and now tries to create a UEFI USB stick, this is just wrong.

You would want to create a UEFI USB stick if you would have disabled legacy mode and not when it is enabled.

Also: He still has not posted a photo of his boot order settings. It's very likely that something is not configured properly there, especially because HP firmware usually allows to specify the boot order for legacy mode and UEFI mode separately.

@ YoupMelon: Why haven't you posted a photo of your firmware boot order settings yet?

Also:

If you really want to create a UEFI USB stick, make sure that legacy mode is disabled and that the stick is formatted as GPT (not MBR) and FAT32 (not NTFS, not ext4) and read this:

https://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/csm-good-bad-ugly.html#creating-media

 ;)

Anyway, just post a photo of your firmware boot order settings and you are increasing your chance of solving your problem.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 03:27:01 AM by pq5190362 »

Offline Juanito

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2017, 03:29:49 AM »
..that the stick is formatted as GPT (not MBR) and FAT32 (not NTFS, not ext4)

..that's what the grub2 instructions, referred to earlier, say.

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2017, 03:39:57 AM »
The legacy bios boot order is usually determined in the bios setup by choosing which device (hd, cd/dvd, usb stick, pxe) the bios should try to boot from first.

Just to give you an idea of what I'm facing:
My BIOS gives me two orders to edit, an UEFI-list and a legacy one.
Then it says that UEFI order takes precedence over legacy order...

But even when I put 'USB' top of the list in both orders; when it comes to booting, OS Manager is taken as the default.  :-\

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2017, 03:43:40 AM »
Anyway, just post a photo of your firmware boot order settings and you are increasing your chance of solving your problem.

How can I post a photo on this forum?

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2017, 03:46:53 AM »
The BIOS update is an .exe file; probably something I can run after installing windows, right? Not an 'image' that I can use in the BIOS maintenance utility.

But you said Windows 10 is already installed?
No. The machine is Win10 prepared, but I broke of the install (it insists that I accept a licence, so I'd prefer to wipe Win10 of the machine without installing, if possible.)
Is that a bad idea, in your opinion?


Offline pq5190362

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2017, 03:50:16 AM »
Again, GPT @ FAT32 would be correct for native UEFI, but that would require him do disable legacy boot mode in the firmware.

He has enabled legacy boot mode in the firmware though, so he would need MBR @ NTFS/FAT32.

I could imagine that this might actually be the issue.

Legacy boot mode enabled = CSM (Compatibility Support Module) = BIOS mode = MBR @ NTFS/FAT32

Legacy boot mode disabled = native UEFI mode = GPT @ FAT32

Anyway, just have him post a photo of his firmware boot order settings. He is complaining about his firmware boot order settings not working properly, but does not post a photo of it, that is of no help to solve the issue.

Just to give you an idea of what I'm facing:
My BIOS gives me two orders to edit, an UEFI-list and a legacy one.

See, just what I am saying:

Also: He still has not posted a photo of his boot order settings. It's very likely that something is not configured properly there, especially because HP firmware usually allows to specify the boot order for legacy mode and UEFI mode separately.

 :)

Will you post a photo now?

But even when I put 'USB' top of the list in both orders; when it comes to booting, OS Manager is taken as the default.  :-\

Are you referring to a "Windows Boot Manager" entry in the boot order?

This is the boot loader that is being installed into the UEFI for UEFI OS installations.

It might be possible that your firmware allows you to edit those entries, but unless you post a photo of it, nobody will be able to tell you.

It can also be done via software though, see for example:

https://www.lifewire.com/change-the-efi-boot-order-efibootmgr-4028027

But you would need to try this yourself.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 03:57:11 AM by pq5190362 »

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2017, 04:00:53 AM »
I'd say that your problem is right there

No, I don't think so.

First of all: He has enabled legacy mode in the firmware and now tries to create a UEFI USB stick, this is just wrong.

You would want to create a UEFI USB stick if you would have disabled legacy mode and not when it is enabled.

What you're saying is that after enabling legacy mode, it should be possible to get the BIOS to take the USB with ordinary 32bit TinyCore as default, right?

At this moment I can boot it, but only after selecting it down the list during boot. It works like a charm that way.
Getting TC as default boot-option is what doesn't seem to work.
And that's why I'm afraid for some security lock-in.

From the release notes that you posted, I'd say the fix won't help.
My keys work fine when editing the BIOS, including the number keys (I have changed the delay-seconds successfully, couple of time.)

Many thanks for that rodbooks ref! I'm reading it right now.

BTW, both in the UEFI boot order as well as in the legacy mode boot order, I have 'USB stick' top of the list in both, and it has saved those settings.




Offline pq5190362

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2017, 04:09:22 AM »
What you're saying is that after enabling legacy mode, it should be possible to get the BIOS to take the USB with ordinary 32bit TinyCore as default, right?

Yes.

At this moment I can boot it, but only after selecting it down the list during boot. It works like a charm that way.
Getting TC as default boot-option is what doesn't seem to work.

I already told you what your issue is, it's this: https://www.lifewire.com/change-the-efi-boot-order-efibootmgr-4028027

Unfortunately you ignored it.

BTW, both in the UEFI boot order as well as in the legacy mode boot order, I have 'USB stick' top of the list in both, and it has saved those settings.

You are very likely to be able to fix the issue by simply removing the checkbox from the UEFI boot order in the firmware settings, i.e. essentially disabling the UEFI boot order list, i.e. also disabling the "Windows Boot Manager" entry.

Anyway, I already told you to post a photo of it. Unfortunately you ignored it several times. This will have been the last time I asked.

Offline Juanito

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2017, 04:14:21 AM »
No, I don't think so.

First of all: He has enabled legacy mode in the firmware and now tries to create a UEFI USB stick, this is just wrong.

You would want to create a UEFI USB stick if you would have disabled legacy mode and not when it is enabled.

The grub2 instructions are for a dual legacy bios/uefi boot usb stick...

Offline pq5190362

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2017, 04:26:03 AM »
@ YoupMelon:

I don't know why I am still helping you, but anyway: Just disable the UEFI boot order as outlined in the following photos by either selecting it and then pressing F5 to disable it (and F10 to save it) or by removing the checkbox from it or by setting it to disabled (depending on what it looks like on your model, which nobody of us can tell unfortunately since you repeatedly refuse to post a photo), see:

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/156555i5281FAE4548751D1?v=1.0
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/138523i8F2B154B3E535296?v=1.0
https://support.hp.com/doc-images/188/c03094732.jpg

Anyway, from now on: No photo, no help.

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2017, 04:32:34 AM »
Anyway, I already told you to post a photo of it. Unfortunately you ignored it several times. This will have been the last time I asked.

I have no idea how to post a photograph on this forum.

Will the following help?

====
Screen titel: InsydeH20 Setup Utility
 tab:   System Configuration

Boot Options
Post Hotkey Delay (sec)   <5>
USB Boot   <Enabled>
Network Boot    <Disabled>
Network Boot Protocol     <IPv4 (Legacy)>
Legacy Support    <Enabled>
Secure Boot     <Disabled>
Platform Key    <Enrolled>
Pending Action    <None>
Clear All Secure Boot Keys
Load HP Factory Default Keys

UEFI Boot Order
  USB Diskette on Key/USB Hard Disk
  USB CD/DVD Rom Drive
  ! Network Adapter
> OS boot Manager

Legacy Boot Order
  USB Diskette on Key/USB Hard Disk
  USB CD/DVD ROM Drive
  ! Network Adapter
> Notebook Hard Drive

=======

Note the two '>'s in front of the Boot Order entries.
On the actual screen, these are little blue triangles.
I can change the order of the lines, (and see the changes back after reboot etc),
but I can't remove or move these >'s in front of the two lines indicated.
If I move the lines up, the perps move with them.
Also, I can't disable the UEFI order, and the help-text explicitly says the UEFI order will take precedence over the Lecagy Boot Order.
Disabling indiviual options is also not possible.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 04:37:46 AM by YoupMelon »

Offline pq5190362

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2017, 04:42:45 AM »
I have no idea how to post a photograph on this forum.

Just click on "Attachments and other options" when creating a forum post.

Also, I can't disable the UEFI order

Why not?

Does the GUI look like this with the checkboxes in front of them:

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/156555i5281FAE4548751D1?v=1.0

?

Is one of the checkboxes grayed out? If yes: Which one?

Have you made sure the following setting looks like this:

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/161186iDD38D2C965242991?v=1.0

?

Also, what do you have your Option ROM Launch Policy set to? Is it set to "All UEFI" as shown in the following photo:

https://h30491.www3.hp.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/5382i50FA30D3969481F1?v=1.0

?

If yes, then try the following: Set it to to Legacy, then save and exit the BIOS, then have the PC reboot and re-enter the BIOS.

Can you now disable the UEFI boot order?

Offline Misalf

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2017, 04:49:06 AM »
There is no "post image" feature apart from using the  [ img=... ]  bb code to post a link of an image hosted elsewhere.
Download a copy and keep it handy: Core book ;)

Offline pq5190362

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2017, 04:52:03 AM »
There is no "post image" feature apart from using the  [ img=... ]  bb code to post a link of an image hosted elsewhere.

But he can attach an image to a post?

Offline Misalf

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2017, 04:55:29 AM »
In theory, but the file size might be an issue.
Download a copy and keep it handy: Core book ;)