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Author Topic: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)  (Read 1033 times)

Offline YoupMelon

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Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« on: October 02, 2017, 02:29:48 AM »
Hi all,

On a new HP laptop (Celeron), I'd like to remove the win10 and install TC instead.
I can disable secure boot and enable legacy boot, after which tiny core usb-boot works like a charm, but I have 2 problems:

1) I can only do usb-boot with ESC-F9 etc, I can't get it to automatically boot from USB - ie the BIOS options order doesn't get changed correctly.
With an Ubuntu boot-USB this does work. (And it failed with CorePlus64 which was said to have UEFI support).
Could it be that there is still some secure-boot going on? I read that Ubuntu made a deal with Microsoft for some keys etc.

2) TC doesn't give me access to the HD
After sudo su  fdisk -l, tc shows me only usb, not the HD, so I can't install, format, wipe the disk clean, etc.
The Ubuntu USB-boot also refused me access to the HD, saying it was 'dirty', perhaps because it was in hibernated state (I broke off the standard win10 installation on an 'accept license' button, so it could be that what I thought was 'reset' was really 'hibernate'.)

I'm considering returning the laptop to the dealer and buying another one (still a couple of days left for that).
Can someone overhere help me further?

Because I rrreally like TinyCore, so far.

« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 02:58:12 AM by YoupMelon »

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (HP, Win10)
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2017, 02:43:22 AM »
To be clear: I'm especially worried about point 1.

What I'm planning to do is: accept the Win10 install, install Ubuntu as dual,
then after that wiping the disk clean (both Win10 and Ubuntu) and install TC instead.

But if the difference between Ubuntu-UEFI boot and TC-UEFI-boot behavior is caused by some security thing in the PC, then this won't work, and I won't be able to return it to the dealer, 'coz the HD is then pretty much empty.

Any advice from you guys?

BTW, if you can suggest a more suitable forum for this question, I'd be all ears.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 02:45:07 AM by YoupMelon »

Offline Juanito

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2017, 07:34:02 AM »
I believe the issue is the uefi secure boot feature - apparently microsoft gives the oem the option to allow the user to toggle the feature at their discretion, but windows machines must must be shipped with it enabled by default.

You would need to check with the oem if you are able to toggle secure boot on your machine or not.

BTW, CorePure64 works fine with uefi boot on both windows machines (without secure boot) and mac for me.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 07:36:04 AM by Juanito »

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2017, 07:52:53 AM »
What I hear you say is that you have no experience yourself with newer machines that have this secure boot option built in, correct?

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 07:58:59 AM »
BTW, my laptop BIOS does give me the options to disable secure boot etc. (That's how managed to USB-boot tinycore in the first place.)

But I have the strong impression that disabling that option will not be enough to allow frugal install.

I so hope that I'm wrong (and that someone on this forum knows the trick).

BTW, after USB-booting Ubuntu/UEFI a couple of times, I can no longer even USB-boot tiny core :'(
(And I can no longer disable secure-boot in the BIOS - ie it won't save, and return as 'enabled' on next boot.)

Does all of this sounds like the laptop is to blame? Or am I just not experienced enough with BIOSes etc?

Offline Juanito

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2017, 08:04:11 AM »
google says the following:
Quote
Follow steps below to access UEFI settings to disable legacy secure boot control in Windows 10, 8.1 and Windows 8. Note that the Secure Boot option must be set to "Disabled" or "Off" to allow you to boot from external media correctly.

Press Windows + I to open the settings charms. Click on Change PC settings at the bottom.
In Windows 8, go to General PC settings and select Advanced startup and then click on Restart now.
In Windows 8.1, go to Update and recovery from left sidebar. Then click Restart now under Advanced startup.

Now you will be presented with the Choose an option screen. Simply select Troubleshoot and then Advanced options in Troubleshoot.

In Advanced options menu, choose UEFI Firmware settings. Then click on Restart button to reboot your system in UEFI settings.

Now your PC have been booted into UEFI utility, move to boot on the top menu and here you can see the option to turn off secure boot in Windows 10. Use the arrow key to go to Secure Boot option and then press enter to select it. Use + or – to change its value.

see also: https://www.linux.com/learn/how-install-linux-windows-machine-uefi-secure-boot
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 08:16:24 AM by Juanito »

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2017, 09:05:14 AM »
Yes, I've seen all that, too.
But:
1) how come Ubuntu USB was shown as top-boot-option, but CorePlus64 wasn't?
2) I've read on the internet that Ubuntu (and Fedora) made a deal with MS, to exchange certain keys etc, so that new hardware would trust Ubuntu.

So perhaps I should rephrase my question:

Has anyone on this forum managed to do any non-Ubuntu Linux install on a new laptop which has that secure-boot built in; no dual-install, but removing Windows10 and just running Linux (non-Ubuntu, non-Fedora) on the machine?

Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2017, 10:07:31 AM »
AFAIK Secure Boot can be disabled within the BIOS to allow any OS install.  Secure Boot was intended only for corporate clients.  IIRC My motherboard has Secure Boot and was promptly disabled.

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2017, 10:45:10 AM »
When I inspect the USB that has CorePure64 on it, I see a syslinux folder, but I don't see anything that looks like grub2, EFI or UEFI.
(In contrast, in the working Ubuntu-USB, folders with these names all over the place.)

Could it be that that is the problem?
Is there documentation that explains how EFI/UEFI/grub2 support can be added to a USB with TC on it?


Offline Misalf

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Download a copy and keep it handy: Core book ;)

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2017, 11:06:09 AM »
Ok, thanks.
If I don't see an EFI folder on the USB, does that mean it is not EFI-ready?

Offline Juanito

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2017, 11:30:10 AM »
affirmative

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2017, 12:36:52 PM »
Ok. Thanks for all the responses so far!

The procedure for grub2 from the forum gave some error messages. Will try again later.

But one more thing I tried is this:
I used the same installer that I used to turn the Ubuntu iso to a bootable USB, and turned the CorePlus64.iso (8.2) into a bootable USB with that.
Now, because TC is a bit special with tce and so on, I didn't expect this to work perfectly, but, the USB did have an EFI folder, and that looked very much like the Ubuntu-USB.
Result: the BIOS still refuses to show that USB as top-Boot-option.
My hunch is: there is still some security thing in the hardware/BIOS that doesn't trust the TC USB enough, at least not the same way as it does the Ubuntu USB.

Is my hunch correct?
Or could there be something else going on?

Offline pq5190362

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2017, 12:40:46 PM »
a new HP laptop (Celeron)

I wonder how you expect anyone to be able to help you properly if you do not specify what model it is exactly. And I also wonder why nobody has asked this question up until now.

What is the exact model number/model name of the laptop?

What firmware (UEFI/BIOS) version is installed? Have you installed the latest firmware already (i.e. "BIOS/UEFI update")?

How have you configured the firmware? You already said you disabled Secure Boot? What else have you configured? Have you also disabled Fastboot? And what about the legacy OpROMs?

Also, you mentioned the boot order in the firmware would not be applied correctly. Can you post a screenshot of how you have configured the boot order?

Also:

How did you create the USB stick exactly?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 12:43:32 PM by pq5190362 »

Offline YoupMelon

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Re: Frugal install on new laptop (UEFI-BIOS trouble?)
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2017, 01:31:02 PM »
Some data:
HP Notebook, 14-bp0xx
Celeron N3060 1.60 GHz, 4GB
Bios vendor Insyde,  version F.09

There is no fastboot option (as far as I can see)
USB Boot:  <enabled>
Network Boot:  <disabled>
Legacy support:  <enabled>
Secure Boot:   <disabled>

(How can pictures be added, on this forum?)

The USBs were all created on a different, rather old Windows machine.
The Ubuntu USB was created with Universal-USB-Installer.
The TinyCore USB I originally created was done with core2usb.
The CorePure64 USB from my 'experiment' was with Universal-USB-Installer.

Is this information helpful to you?

« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 01:40:06 PM by YoupMelon »